Trains and lasers

[whole diary]

[CyclingSid]

I note that a Bill on laser misuse is due to get its second reading this week, with support from the government; https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2017-2019/0075/18075.pdf
It has been extended to include trains. Are there many recorded incidents, presumably not as many/newsworthy as planes?

[Tim]

I think we need to be careful here.  Highlighting the actions of idiots may encourage copycats??

[ChrisB]

In which case, we ought to stop recording every fatality too.....

[grahame]

In which case, we ought to stop recording every fatality too.....

There are interesting discussions we've had on this in the past, and it I still watch and wonder about the flagging of "person hit by train".  I have also looked at the very different way that's handled in the USA.

"Person hit by train" - where it's a conscious decision (perhaps copycat) to be hit - is something which has a life changing outcome on him/her. In other words, the price of being a copycat is high, and we have a chance here of flagging up all the negatives to the extend that we can help people off copying.   Certainly that's the USA approach / view.

"Interfering with transport operation with a laser" is intended by the perpetrator to be something that does not have a life changing outcome on him/her.   So it's probably a far more casual decision to do it.   And as such, it's far more likely that the person doing it will have no thought - just grab an idea and copy it.   

This move to frequent posters is made for the same reason that a few other moves have been made over the years; I can recall chemical formulae for the best substances to permanently vandalise train windows, and at least one way of avoid paying fares properly that would be very hard to detect.

[CyclingSid]

Understand change and move, but the original question (wherever answered, or not) was to understand the scale of problem. The problem in the aviation field is much mentioned, but couldn't remember anything in relation to rail.
How to get a balance between understanding a problem, making it worse, or ignoring it.
Could have similar attitude to deaths on the railway/suicides. Has always been a suggestion that if you publish you get copy-cat events. If you don't, does it mean that you don't make any progress on prevention, in so-called "hot spots" (in general the numbers are too small to prove hot spots), or elsewhere. On answers, although have worked in this general area for some years.
In the light of Grahame's comment while I was typing, the topics I mention do not require equal forethought, but consequences can still be serious.

[ChrisB]

If you're mentally impaired enough not to think that shining a laser at anything being 'driven' might not injure said person(s) that a mention on here might swing your mind, then I'm afraid the same applies to anyone mentally impaired enough to think that taking their life is an equally sensible idea and might well use this method to achieve their aim.

Either state of mind could be reading these threads.

Sorry.

[CyclingSid]

Statisticians outlook (me), look at the numbers in the first instance to scope need, before getting into reasons (feelings tend not to come with the data). Bit clinical?

[Tim]

In which case, we ought to stop recording every fatality too.....

No, but we need to be careful in both instances.  For the record, I have absolutely no concern about the original post in this thread. 

[ChrisB]

no, nor do I. At all.

[grahame]

No easy call on the positioning of posts, folks ... but I and / or other moderators or admins need to make decisions on a relatively short timescale with just one or two minds on it which can then be chewed over by dozens for hours on end.

Although the original of this thread was out in public, the only contributions to it at the time of move were frequent posters (I DID^▸ (Didcot Parkway) look at that), so it actually makes very little practical difference where it is as far as our members are concerned.

For the record, I have absolutely no concern about the original post in this thread. 

no, nor do I. At all.

Recorded.   Let's move on. 

[grahame]

Are there many recorded incidents, presumably not as many/newsworthy as planes?

Here are the BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) logs

http://www.btp.police.uk/pdf/FOI%20Response%20228-16%20Laser%20Pen%20incidents.pdf

Bit old - 2014, 2015 and first 2 months of 2016 ...72, 64, 15 (2 months)

[JayMac]

So, there's a bill before Parliament, with all its detail in the public domain. Statistics on incidents from British Transport Police also in the public domain. Countless news items easily found with the the simplist of search terms.

And we're worried here about talking of the subject publicly for fear of promulgating laser attacks on trains?

My libertarian leanings do think hiding the discussion away is a bit of an overreaction.

[grahame]

My libertarian leanings do think hiding the discussion away is a bit of an overreaction.

Yes, you have made that clear.

I have explained that moderation decisions have to be made quickly by one of two people and err on the side of safety. They can then be picked over slowly in great detail by lots of people with the benefit of further research and hindsight.   Clearly I have not made that clear to you 

It's pretty academic where this post is anyway, as all contributors were and are in Frequent Posters.  Think I said that earlier, but perhaps not clearly.

Let's move on.  Think I said that earlier too.

[ChrisB]

Of course, with plenty of time for hindsight, I'm sure that the Mod team can reconsider....it has happened before.

[grahame]

Of course, with plenty of time for hindsight, I'm sure that the Mod team can reconsider....it has happened before.

It's pretty academic where this post is anyway, as all contributors were and are in Frequent Posters.  Think I said that earlier, but perhaps not clearly.

Let's move on.  Think I said that earlier too.