TVM contactless payments

[whole diary]

[Fourbee]

I have a suspicion that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) may now only accept contactless payments (when using a card) for everything below £30. The text on the reader has changed to "present card" and inserting the card for these transactions yields "card not valid".

Occasionally it's useful to pay by chip and PIN as contactless payments don't always get shown immediately on the account.

[LiskeardRich]

The issue with this, is every 10th transaction a pin entry is compulsory.

[WelshBluebird]

The issue with this, is every 10th transaction a pin entry is compulsory.

Well that and the fact that many people do not have contactless cards!

[didcotdean]

The oldest TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) at Didcot doesn't recognise a contactless Amex card although it will take it through Android pay in my experience. Visa and MC seem to work.

[old original]

The issue with this, is every 10th transaction a pin entry is compulsory.

....I would think this only applies under certain conditions. I have used contactless in about half a dozen different places 20 to 30 times each over the last 9 or 10 months and have never had to revert to c&p..

[Brucey]

The issue with this, is every 10th transaction a pin entry is compulsory.

....I would think this only applies under certain conditions. I have used contactless in about half a dozen different places 20 to 30 times each over the last 9 or 10 months and have never had to revert to c&p..

It depends on what's programmed into the card by the issuer.

My Halifax card allows dozens of contactless transactions before requesting a PIN - I think it may have a monetary value instead of a transaction counter.  Whereas the Nationwide consistently requires a PIN on the 10th consecutive contactless transaction.  Any non-contactless transaction resets this counter.

[Bmblbzzz]

The issue with this, is every 10th transaction a pin entry is compulsory.

....I would think this only applies under certain conditions. I have used contactless in about half a dozen different places 20 to 30 times each over the last 9 or 10 months and have never had to revert to c&p..

It depends on what's programmed into the card by the issuer.

My Halifax card allows dozens of contactless transactions before requesting a PIN - I think it may have a monetary value instead of a transaction counter.  Whereas the Nationwide consistently requires a PIN on the 10th consecutive contactless transaction.  Any non-contactless transaction resets this counter.

Does that include withdrawing cash from an ATM^▸ (Automated Teller Machine, or 'at the moment', depending on context)?

[Brucey]

Does that include withdrawing cash from an ATM^▸ (Automated Teller Machine, or 'at the moment', depending on context)?

Provided the ATM uses the chip (instead of the magnetic stripe), then yes, it will reset the counter.  Virtually all ATMs in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) will read the chip.

I haven't had a chance to test whether an online banking card reader would reset the counter.  I will give that a go at some point in the future.

Also, I haven't had a chance to test whether the card can still be used on TfL^» (Transport for London - about) services when you are on the 10th transaction.  I know they don't count towards the 10 as no transaction is registered on the card.  The Nationwide card cannot be read by my phone after the 9th transaction, so I am unsure whether the Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) readers would be able to read it.

[Surrey 455]

Also, I haven't had a chance to test whether the card can still be used on TfL^» (Transport for London - about) services when you are on the 10th transaction.  I know they don't count towards the 10 as no transaction is registered on the card.  The Nationwide card cannot be read by my phone after the 9th transaction, so I am unsure whether the Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) readers would be able to read it.

There was some sort of agreement between TfL and Mastercard / Visa so you don't have to insert your card into a reader after so many contactless transactions. Probably just as well because there aren't any on the buses or ticket gatelines.

[LiskeardRich]

The issue with this, is every 10th transaction a pin entry is compulsory.

....I would think this only applies under certain conditions. I have used contactless in about half a dozen different places 20 to 30 times each over the last 9 or 10 months and have never had to revert to c&p..

A non contactless transaction resets the count. It’s only if you do 10 consecutive contactless transactions, so most of us will probably not get to the request pin stage.

[Bmblbzzz]

All clear now, thanks.

[paul7575]

There was some sort of agreement between TfL^» (Transport for London - about) and Mastercard / Visa so you don't have to insert your card into a reader after so many contactless transactions. Probably just as well because there aren't any on the buses or ticket gatelines.

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) this is known as the "Contactless Transit EMV Framework" it works subtly differently to normal, so that PAYG^▸ (Pay as you go) touches can be stored up and a single daily charge made later, including capping.    As you say the system had to overcome the problem that ticket gates and standalone validators do not have PIN readers.  Stopping some people for a PIN at a busy gateline would have wrecked the flow through, as would turning them away from the front of a queue.

There's an info pamphlet here:  https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/UK-Finance-Contactless-Transit-EMV-Framework.pdf 

Paul