Very long term - where will Bristol Suburban trains be?

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Not attributed - but a sketch of where the Bristol Suburban Railway network could be by the middle of the century? Looking beyond WECA^» (West of England Combined Authority - about), MetroWest, the Severnside CRP^▸ (Community Rail Partnership) and FoSBR^» (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways - site). Ahead beyond the 30 year rail planning window too, it has local trains running to Ashton Gate, Bristol Airport, Charfield, Chippenham, Cribbs Causeway, Melksham, Portishead, Radstock, Severn Beach, Thornbury, Warminster, Westgate Park and Weston-super-Mare.

[Red Squirrel]

To me, this highlights the absurdity of our current systems for planning, funding and building new rail infrastructure: As of now, I'm sure that the network shown would be well-used and bring economic benefits.  If we could get it built in 5 years, we could be fairly confident of a good return on investment. But in 30 or 40 years' time, who knows what the requirements will be?

Broadway Station was authorised in 1899, opened in 1904 and closed in 1960. If they'd used the GRIP^▸ (Guide to Railway Investment Projects) process, the paint would have barely dried by the time they knocked it down. You could argue that if they'd had GRIP back then, they would never have built it - and you could well be right. Sometimes it seems to me that GRIP is not so much a tool for getting it right as a mechanism for delaying and avoiding investment.

[Chris from Nailsea]

If I may pick up just one of those 'possible' new lines - actually, the one which I perhaps know most about - the one to Bristol Airport?

Their suggested link from west of Yatton Station appears to follow the alignment of the old Strawberry Line to somewhere south of Congresbury, then strikes off east along (I assume) the alignment of the trackbed of the old Wrington Vale Light Railway, before swinging north towards Bristol Airport somewhere to the east of Wrington.

You wouldn't get that little lot agreed to and built in a hundred years, never mind 30.  Most of that old trackbed / alignment has now been built on, with very significant residential and industrial use, so you'd have some rather powerful opposition.  You are also trying to get from near sea level (76 metres above) at Wrington to 190 metres above at Bristol Airport, in a relatively short distance.

And it isn't even the best approach to Bristol Airport from Bristol: why not look instead at the possibilities of a tramway / light rail link from Bristol Temple Meads direct to Bristol Airport, roughly along the alignment of the A38?  That would perhaps stand a rather better chance of ever actually happening.

Unconvinced from Nailsea. 



Edit note: Metric height above sea level figure for Bristol Airport now corrected, with thanks to member chuffed for pointing out my error. 

[Bmblbzzz]

And to pick up on one of the others, what's with the line from Portishead crossing the Avon somewhere around the Suspension Bridge and joining the Severn Beach line, leaving Ashton Gate on a curious spur? I can vaguely see some point in being able to get from Portishead to Clifton directly but not so much as to be worth taking a longer route to Temple Meads, and as for the practicalities... well, clearly the line will use one of the new metro tunnels to cross the Avon Gorge!

[Chris from Nailsea]

With my recent track record on heights above (or even below) sea level, Bmblbzzz, I didn't want to even start discussing that one! 

[chuffed]

And a tram train running from the proposed Portishead  station to the site of the 54-64 station, and on up the hill in Portishead along Nore Road, passing my humble abode. Sharp right along the coast road and then a viaduct on Clevedon golf course  and a short tunnel  to the west of Walton in Gordano through the Gordano valley on the old Light railway alignment.Then through to Clevedon Triangle and the old branch line to Yatton. There we have it... we could call it the Elfan Loop Line !

[Chris from Nailsea]

... and, to complete the absolute loopiness, it could then head back towards Bristol to link up with the Nigel Ashton Vale line. 

[grahame]

And a tram train running from the proposed Portishead  station to the site of the 54-64 station, and on up the hill in Portishead along Nore Road, passing my humble abode. Sharp right along the coast road and then a viaduct on Clevedon golf course  and a short tunnel  to the west of Walton in Gordano through the Gordano valley on the old Light railway alignment.Then through to Clevedon Triangle and the old branch line to Yatton. There we have it... we could call it the Elfan Loop Line !

There is the thought that if the gorge is so bl**dy expensive now, look at the alternatives.  I admin I fancy a short length of straight track from Ham across the river and linking up to double track all the way through Clifton. 4 trains an hour from Bristol to Clifton, with 2 on to Portishead, one to Severn Beach and one round the Hallen loop,

[Chris from Nailsea]

... 4 trains an hour from Bristol to Clifton, with 2 on to Portishead, one to Severn Beach and one round the Hallen loop,

Where would you get enough drivers for all of that? 

[grahame]

And it isn't even the best approach to Bristol Airport from Bristol ...

The best approach to a Bristol Airport is the Cribbs Causeway branch ... but someone's building houses on the runway.

1 in 30 ruling gradient to an underground station for "Lulsgate" ... railway moving away from the old trackbed on the light railway to climb on the side of the valley?  Bristol "Lulsgate" still likely to be closer Bristol than Frankfurt Hahn to Frankfurt

And don't overlook that major flow of pensioners from retirement in Weston-s-m to the planes to the Costa Del Sol and Corfu.

[grahame]

Where would you get enough drivers for all of that? 

I won't be popular in some quarters if I suggest driving could be a second career for the train manager.   Or they could come to this country from the new Eastern Europe - wherever the inbound flow will be at that time.  Perhaps people wanting to escape the USA if Mr T and his followers carry on as they're going.

[johnneyw]

With the current increases in projected costings for new/improved lines it might be cheaper to lower Lulsgate than raise a line to there. 😀

[Chris from Nailsea]

Well, as grahame has already hinted, the perhaps ideal height above mean sea level for a Bristol Airport would have been 225 feet / 69 metres (thank you, chuffed).

However, that opportunity for an airport with almost ready-made road and rail infrastructure links was lost, some time ago, when Filton was sold off for housing. 

[Christina Biggs FOSBR]

Just looking for a good place to start a new dicussion on Bristol Airport.

Someone has just posted a suggestion to use Stancombe quarry as a rail route to the airport, presumably from somewhere near Flax Bourton or Long Ashton (if you look at the map).

My own idea has been to run a minibus shuttle from Nailsea and Backwell station. There used to be a bus, the A2, from Weston super Mare, via the Airport, to Nailsea and Backwell and thence to Nailsea and Clevedon. This was discontinued, but in the month  before the service stopped I visited the airport incognito and asked at the information desk how to get to the rail network - no info inside the airport either as map or timetable on the A2, and the bus stop was labelled only "A2" with no destination, and the bus itself was labelled only "North Somerset Link" - as I wrote to the CEO^▸ (Chief Executive Officer) of Bristol Airport, "Anyone would think you wanted the airport parking revenue".

We had a meeting with the Airport and pointed all this out, and they said the problem was the Backwell crossroads. My thought was that a minibus could go round the back of Backwell. I tried to start up an email discussion about this with North Somerset Council, got a vague expression of interest and heard no more. The Airport did not want to release the postcode data to me but consented in principle to release it to my University of Bristol contact who lives in Nailsea, who has also gone quiet.

Perhaps the Airport feel that a minibus shuttle would be below their dignity? They are floating plans to run a rail link from Parson St (or the Vale location favoured by Taylor Wimpey, where the South Bristol Link road crosses the rail line. Mayor Marvin would like to see an underground link which most of us feel is very beyond the pale! But at least that would get round the gradient problem which most people cite.

I'm going to post on Aztec West seperately.

   

[Christina Biggs FOSBR]

So, Aztec West underground station. I am aware this is a suggestion of Graham's. I was in conversation with a chap who was planning ahead to the post-climate change world with 85 ft sea level rise. He felt that an underground network would be a necessity if most of Britain was to be under water, so wanted my thoughts on Marvin's underground metro.

I suggested that a great way to test an underground metro logistics would be to build the Aztec West underground station first as a stand-alone project. So if it was embarrassingly complicated and expensive they would not have spent billions on a useless tunnel and could sink the costs of just the one station, and connect Bristol North to the rest of the world at the same time.

Now, MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) Darren Jones is holding a Gridlock Conference on Saturday 7th July 2018, taking place from 2:30 to approximately 4:30 pm.The event will be held at Henbury and Brentry Community Centre, Machin Road, Henbury, BS10 7HG.

He invited stakeholders (including an email to me) as follows:

"As you are no doubt aware, there is substantial development happening across the North of Bristol, which is underpinned by a spatial planning and housing strategy. This is in addition to tolls being removed from the Severn Bridge. This will mean challenges in ensuring appropriate transport infrastructure, and that our roads do not turn into gridlock.

I do hope you will be able to join us and share your insights and expertise on finding a way forward. I have invited key stakeholders from across North Bristol to attend to work collaboratively on how we can best develop a set of proposals and asks to make to key decision makers."

So - I can't attend myself; I can't get any other FOSBR^▸ (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways) members to go. Would one of the forum members be interested in attending? I think it would be an excellent forum to raise both Graham's Aztec West idea and also things like a Park and Ride inside Filton Rail Diamond (an idea from Neil Hackett) and of course rehabilitating the Henbury Loop plans (which may mean engaging with the CH2MHill 2015 report that was so damning of the idea.

Perhaps the polite thing to do is email me (on general@fosbr.org.uk) and I can suggest to Darren Jones that he invite you?

Tina Biggs
FOSBR