Those barriers - whose idea?

[whole diary]

[Tim]

Down to the barriers, they are known to reduce ticketless travel. I agree with earlier points that they should remain in use late evening to assist with disruptive behaviour.
Barriers will be the way forward in terms of smart cards, so we do need them, especially within London so that Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) can finally be accepted.

To my mind ticketless travel is a relatively petty crime compared with abusing or intimidating other passenger or staff which ought to be treated as a very serious crime especialy when there is violence involved.   FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would have more respect from me over the barrier issue if they kept them in use late evening in order to adress the serious crime issue rather than only using them to maximise revenue collection because they would be sending out the message that they cared about the safety of the pasengers and staff rather than the current message that they care about money.

[WashuChan]

Mookiemoo, all stations on the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) network either have a Ticket Vending Machine or a PERTIS^▸ (Permit to travel) machine. If you cannot buy a ticket from one of these, then see the guard. They are always in the middle of the train on the class 458 operated trains, or the rear if it is only a 4 coach. Invariably, they are non-commercial and cannot issue tickets.

The point is on this particular day I showed up at Egham 20 minutes before my train - which was 40 minutes before the last train I could get and still make my meeting

It took me 37 minutes to get parked.

As I ran out of the car park the train was already going over the level crossing.

If I did not get that train, I was going to miss my meeting

I had left plenty of time on any normal day - how was I supposed to know half of the car park was coned off.

Or do you suggest that people miss trains whilst buying a ticket?   And dont say leave earlier - how early does one have to leave!

Purchase your tickets in advanced if you have an important meeting to attend to. You can easily do it online and have them delivered to your home address or if the station your going to has a FastTicket machine get them there.

Also to my knowledge there has been advised information regarding SWT's car park upgrades over the last few months, so you should of seen the information in the stations you use.

So the fine you got was justily given, you broke the rules by boarding a train without a ticket and were fined for doing it. You would expect no less from SWT or any other Train Company if it was some "yob" who didn't buy a ticket either.

[west49th]

For me, the interesting thing about this thread is that responses seem divided between those who believe that the Train Companies exist to serve the needs of their customers, and those who believe that customers exist to serve the needs of the Train Companies.

I know which side I'm on.

[zebedee]

I don't believe either of those, I believe that both the Train Company and all the customers are figments of my imagination, which would completely explain the un-nerving weirdness and surrealness I feel every time I get on a train and travel with hundreds of other allegedly ^real^ people.  Mind you, I feel the same way in supermarkets too so maybe I am just a figment of my own imagination ^ is it the weekend yet?

[vacman]

For me, the interesting thing about this thread is that responses seem divided between those who believe that the Train Companies exist to serve the needs of their customers, and those who believe that customers exist to serve the needs of the Train Companies.

I know which side I'm on.

Whoevers side your on, there are two pricipals, not paying for your rail fare is wrong, if you don't like the service, don't like the way it's implemented, don't like the trains etc, etc, then theres a simple answer, DON'T USE IT, train companies are no different to other businesses in the fact that they exist to make money, same as Tesco, same as Sainsburys same as all the places where people on this forum go to work every day, so why is it wrong for train companies to expect everyone who uses their services to pay for it? they have every right to protect the interest's of their business and thats a fact, like it or lump it! The railways were first built as a business, by private companies, why should it be any different today?? the Government are the villians, they accepted the bid, they set the spec,they re-privatised the railways! [/rant]

[west49th]

I'm not advocating fare evasion.

I'm simply advocating a more customer friendly approach to revenue protection.

These things are "barriers" in more ways than one. They alienate people.

And you wonder why FGW^▸ (First Great Western) has so few of its passengers standing up for it at the moment...

[vacman]

I'm not advocating fare evasion.

I'm simply advocating a more customer friendly approach to revenue protection.

These things are "barriers" in more ways than one. They alienate people.

And you wonder why FGW^▸ (First Great Western) has so few of its passengers standing up for it at the moment...

Almost every TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) in the country has ticket barriers, can you think of a more effective way to protect revenue? the vast majority of passengers are actually pro barriers, I don't see how they are particularly customer unfriendly,and I really don't see how they alienate people?

[devon_metro]

Barriers is the reason there are riots on the LU every day 

[Jim]

If you read the instructions barriers are easy! How hard can it be to understand if you have large luggage to go through the side gate. Also how hard is it do understand the words 'seek assistance'

[Tim]

Let me give you an example of how FGW^▸ (First Great Western) takes perfectly legitimate action to deal with fare evasion and then shoots itself in the foot by implementing it badly.  It is this sort of attidute that turns law abiding passengers against FGW's barrier policy:

Cheltenham Spa does not have automatic bariers.  The down platform at Cheltenham spa has a nice ramp from the carpark/ticket office to the platform. This provides easy access for wheelchairs and pushchairs but as it is another enterance into the station platform it could potentially lead to increased ticket fraud.  The only other access to the platform is down steep steps.  The ramp also provides a step free energency exit from the station.

It seem that during the week at peak times FGW sometimes operates a manual ticket barrier.  In order to do this it makes sense for access to the ramp asess to be also manned or if there are not spare staff to do this to close the ramp acess by locking the door at the bottom.  If anyone needs the ramp at such times there will be barrier staff on duty at the barrier who can arrange to have acess to it opened.

Now, on Saturday I travelled form Cheltenham to Bath mid afternoon with my son in his pushchair.  I brought my ticket at the ticket office at the "top of the station" and then tried to acess the platform down the ramp and through the door onto the platform.  But there was a sign on the locked door saying "ramp access s now closed - please ask if you need assistance"

There was noone arround to ask the only staff I chould see where in the ticket office (at which there was a queque) and anyway I wasn't sure if the offer of assistance applied to me or was only really for folks in wheelchairs.  plus I didn't trust that I could get assistance in the five minutes needed.

I ended up carrying the pushchair down the steps and just making the train.  The experince left a bitter taste in my mouth which could have been avoided if FGW was more customer focused.  My beefs are:

1) There were no ticket checks at the station that day, so why not unlock the acess from the rampduring such times?
If you are going to lock acess from the ramp (and I acept that FGW is perfectly entitled to do this), then how about:
2) removing the signs that point to the ramp.  At the moment there are signs directing you all the way down the ramp and to a locked door which you only realise is locked when you reach the bottom. 
3) replacing the solid door at the bottom of the ramp with a gate through which you could see the platform staff and ask them to unlock the gate and let you through or installing a "door bell" arrangement like platform 2 in Bath.

If I was in a wheelchair I would have missed the train and my journey would have taken 30 miuntes longer.

If bariers and other controls are neccessary to safeguard income then we need them (and the stats provided by Vacman would appeear to justify them) , but we can't ignore the fact that FGW can p**s off their customers very easily and this too is a real risk to their revenue.  There are so many examples where the barriers themselves are not the problem just the cackhanded way in which they are implemented.  FGW would annoy fewer customers if it:

1, added a couple of extra gates at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)). there is plenty of room to do this
2, removed the wheelcahir sign from the wide automatic gate at Bath.  This tempts wheelcahir uses and pushchairs through the gate, but once you are on teh other side, there are steps to the platforms so having an acessible gate if worthless (I understand that lifts are planned - how about covering teh wheelchair sign until teh lifts are installed?)

[gpn01]

I don't have a problem with barriers at all - as long as my ticket'll work in them, which it usually does for about a month then it can't be read after that. 

[zebedee]

My annual season ticket is fast approaching it's 4th month birthday and it's still going strong!  (looks a bit worn now though) but I have had monthly ones die on me and won't be accepted by the barriers.....

[TheLastMinute]

I don't have a problem with barriers at all - as long as my ticket'll work in them, which it usually does for about a month then it can't be read after that. 

My annual season ticket is fast approaching it's 4th month birthday and it's still going strong!  (looks a bit worn now though) but I have had monthly ones die on me and won't be accepted by the barriers.....

Of course, if your season ticket stops working in the barriers you can get it replaced free of charge.

M

[vacman]

Let me give you an example of how FGW^▸ (First Great Western) takes perfectly legitimate action to deal with fare evasion and then shoots itself in the foot by implementing it badly.  It is this sort of attidute that turns law abiding passengers against FGW's barrier policy:

Cheltenham Spa does not have automatic bariers.  The down platform at Cheltenham spa has a nice ramp from the carpark/ticket office to the platform. This provides easy access for wheelchairs and pushchairs but as it is another enterance into the station platform it could potentially lead to increased ticket fraud.  The only other access to the platform is down steep steps.  The ramp also provides a step free energency exit from the station.

It seem that during the week at peak times FGW sometimes operates a manual ticket barrier.  In order to do this it makes sense for access to the ramp asess to be also manned or if there are not spare staff to do this to close the ramp acess by locking the door at the bottom.  If anyone needs the ramp at such times there will be barrier staff on duty at the barrier who can arrange to have acess to it opened.

Now, on Saturday I travelled form Cheltenham to Bath mid afternoon with my son in his pushchair.  I brought my ticket at the ticket office at the "top of the station" and then tried to acess the platform down the ramp and through the door onto the platform.  But there was a sign on the locked door saying "ramp access s now closed - please ask if you need assistance"

There was noone arround to ask the only staff I chould see where in the ticket office (at which there was a queque) and anyway I wasn't sure if the offer of assistance applied to me or was only really for folks in wheelchairs.  plus I didn't trust that I could get assistance in the five minutes needed.

I ended up carrying the pushchair down the steps and just making the train.  The experince left a bitter taste in my mouth which could have been avoided if FGW was more customer focused.  My beefs are:

1) There were no ticket checks at the station that day, so why not unlock the acess from the rampduring such times?
If you are going to lock acess from the ramp (and I acept that FGW is perfectly entitled to do this), then how about:
2) removing the signs that point to the ramp.  At the moment there are signs directing you all the way down the ramp and to a locked door which you only realise is locked when you reach the bottom. 
3) replacing the solid door at the bottom of the ramp with a gate through which you could see the platform staff and ask them to unlock the gate and let you through or installing a "door bell" arrangement like platform 2 in Bath.

If I was in a wheelchair I would have missed the train and my journey would have taken 30 miuntes longer.

If bariers and other controls are neccessary to safeguard income then we need them (and the stats provided by Vacman would appeear to justify them) , but we can't ignore the fact that FGW can p**s off their customers very easily and this too is a real risk to their revenue.  There are so many examples where the barriers themselves are not the problem just the cackhanded way in which they are implemented.  FGW would annoy fewer customers if it:

1, added a couple of extra gates at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)). there is plenty of room to do this
2, removed the wheelcahir sign from the wide automatic gate at Bath.  This tempts wheelcahir uses and pushchairs through the gate, but once you are on teh other side, there are steps to the platforms so having an acessible gate if worthless (I understand that lifts are planned - how about covering teh wheelchair sign until teh lifts are installed?)

You make a few valid points there tim, but the wide gates are a legal requirement, and they have to marked as such, as for the gate situation then that doesn't really have much to do with ticket barriers as Cheltenham is ungated (at the moment, but watch this space! along with Gloucester), at the end of the day whatever happens then you cant please everyone, but the truth is that the majority of regular passengers (the bread and butter) are in favour, the points that you've brought up are quite minor really.

[gpn01]

I don't have a problem with barriers at all - as long as my ticket'll work in them, which it usually does for about a month then it can't be read after that. 

My annual season ticket is fast approaching it's 4th month birthday and it's still going strong!  (looks a bit worn now though) but I have had monthly ones die on me and won't be accepted by the barriers.....

Of course, if your season ticket stops working in the barriers you can get it replaced free of charge.

M

Except that I then have to queue for a replacement.  I was going to do it a couple of weeks ago and was told that to revalidate the ticket would take "around 7 minutes".  So, that's 10 minutes of queueing, 7 minutes of revalidating.....The time adds up and I miss my train.