Those barriers - whose idea?

[whole diary]

[Graz]

It is awkward to have barriers at some places and not others, and there are some stations that could really do with them. (*cough* Westbury!) There are also problems with disabled/wide access, large or paper tickets, and the fact they occasionally reject legitimate tickets so any station that has them needs to be well manned while they are in use.

I agree with Miniman, they are a neccesary evil and do make people out to be fare-dodgers. Personally though I am for them, although I do wish they wouldn't swallow tickets when you exit the station because it's a lot more difficult to claim compensation should you need to.

I've also had one swallow my all day travelcard once at Cardiff Central, and that was a bit of a nightmare to get back...

[vacman]

Barriers on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) stations are always manned by at least two members of staff (a legal requirement) so it shouldn't be too difficult for old people, when the Great Western was "Great" as you say, then EVERY station had barrier staff, and as mentioned by someone else, society has changed dramaticly since the 1930's. When Exeter's barriers were first introduced then the main complaint from the majority of passengers was "it's about time, i'm fed up of paying when half the train has been travelling for free", as for comparing it to Tesco's, then this is slightly different, people don't think it's acceptable to walk out of Tesco's without paying, but far too many people think it's acceptable to leave a train station after travelling without having paid, many passengers have brought the need for barriers on themselves!

[Graz]

If anyone's ever been to Cathays station in Cardiff there are barriers there on both platforms- only three if I remember correctly on each. Only a small station but they were there and manned by two guards on each side.

[Jim]

If anyone's ever been to Cathays station in Cardiff there are barriers there on both platforms- only three if I remember correctly on each. Only a small station but they were there and manned by two guards on each side.

Yep, I was shocked to see them there the other day!

[Phil]

I must confess I got caught out at that one. I stayed with my daughter (who lived near Cathays for a year or so when working in Cardiff) one night after seeing a band. My return ticket covered me from Cardiff Central back to Bath. It was raining, it was still dark, it was about 6.30am, and rather than walk the mile and a half or so down to Cardiff Central, I decided to jump on a train from Cathays station. I was perfectly prepared to pay, obviously, but I admit it did cross my mind that it was a tiny, and probably unmanned, station and there was actually very little likelihood of my lack of a valid ticket being picked up during the 3 minute long journey down to Cardiff Central. Came as quite a surprise to find barriers and people there! On reflection of course it's smack in the middle of student land, so the barriers probably paid for themselves in terms of lost revenue from people with far worse intentions that mine in the space of just a few months.

[Graz]

^Very true, the university is literally a 2 minute walk away!

If anyone's ever been to Cathays station in Cardiff there are barriers there on both platforms- only three if I remember correctly on each. Only a small station but they were there and manned by two guards on each side.

Yep, I was shocked to see them there the other day!

Me too, that effectively makes Cardiff Bay the only barrier-less station in central Cardiff!

[John R]

And not only the University, but it's more convenient for much of the Civic Centre working population. So avoids passengers alighting from further north without a ticket, and also avoids those who might be tempted to travel into Cardiff Queen St or Central and claim they only got on at Cathays.

[grahame]

I was surprised by them a couple of weeks ago ... but the fact that so many of us have been to Cathays in the last couple of months is rather telling. Perhaps my Melksham to Cathays ticket is not as much of a collectors item as I thought.   The Northbound were unmanned / out of use / open in the evening peak when I went past them to go over bridge and join train south to Cardiff.

[Lee]

The work to install new barriers across platforms 10-14 at Paddington is featured in the link below.
http://www.iworkforfgw.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=53&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

[Tim]

Like so many other things in life its not a question of what you do but how you do it.

I'd be all for barriers but only if the following conditions are met (and they never are)

1) all tickets sold are the right size for the barriers
2) they are used in the evening when the chavs are out (otherwise the justification that they reduce antisocial behaviour is weak)
3) there are loads of them so that they don't cause queues
4) they do not retain tickets but merely cancel them (so tickets are available for compensation or company expenses claims)
5) there are realiable (and staff are instructed not to clip tickets across the magnetic strip)
6) they are not used as an excuse to reduce on-train ticket checking (i resent it when barriers are installed for the reasons that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) don't trust their staff to check tickets on trains or because the trains are too-crowded for an on-train ticket check)
7) there are always suffcient ticket machines and manned windows.
they do not reduce access to the station (for example the barriers at Bath mean that customers coming from Widcomb have to cross the track via the underpass to reach the barriers and then cross the track again to reach platform 1.  this adds a couple of minutes to their journey)
9) the barriers are sophisticated enough to let you out of the station and then back in a few hours later. (so for example you can buy a Paper from Smiths at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) between trains)
10) the barriers are correctly programmed (for example the Oxford barriers are programmed to reject certain tickets at peak times and are unable to descriminate between valid Oxford to Bristol tickets and invalid Oxford to London tickets and will reject both)
11) disabled and pushchair access is maintained
12) platform tickets are available so you can help friends onto their trains (afterall porters have been abolished)
13) platform numbers are acounced in good time (not like at Paddington)
14) they do not lead to overcharging (as is the case where Pay as you go Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) has been introduced on the London Overground - cheaper tcikets are avilable on trains after 9:30, but if you travel on the 9:31, and touch in at 9:29, you will be overcharged - possibily illegally)

My objection to barriers is not that they are bad per se but rather that they are implemented in a  cack-handed and customer-unfriendly way

[vacman]

Like so many other things in life its not a question of what you do but how you do it.

I'd be all for barriers but only if the following conditions are met (and they never are)

1) all tickets sold are the right size for the barriers
2) they are used in the evening when the chavs are out (otherwise the justification that they reduce antisocial behaviour is weak)
3) there are loads of them so that they don't cause queues
4) they do not retain tickets but merely cancel them (so tickets are available for compensation or company expenses claims)
5) there are realiable (and staff are instructed not to clip tickets across the magnetic strip)
6) they are not used as an excuse to reduce on-train ticket checking (i resent it when barriers are installed for the reasons that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) don't trust their staff to check tickets on trains or because the trains are too-crowded for an on-train ticket check)
7) there are always suffcient ticket machines and manned windows.
they do not reduce access to the station (for example the barriers at Bath mean that customers coming from Widcomb have to cross the track via the underpass to reach the barriers and then cross the track again to reach platform 1.  this adds a couple of minutes to their journey)
9) the barriers are sophisticated enough to let you out of the station and then back in a few hours later. (so for example you can buy a Paper from Smiths at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) between trains)
10) the barriers are correctly programmed (for example the Oxford barriers are programmed to reject certain tickets at peak times and are unable to descriminate between valid Oxford to Bristol tickets and invalid Oxford to London tickets and will reject both)
11) disabled and pushchair access is maintained
12) platform tickets are available so you can help friends onto their trains (afterall porters have been abolished)
13) platform numbers are acounced in good time (not like at Paddington)
14) they do not lead to overcharging (as is the case where Pay as you go Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) has been introduced on the London Overground - cheaper tcikets are avilable on trains after 9:30, but if you travel on the 9:31, and touch in at 9:29, you will be overcharged - possibily illegally)

My objection to barriers is not that they are bad per se but rather that they are implemented in a  cack-handed and customer-unfriendly way

you say about barriers should not retain tickets, remember that a ticket remains the property of the train company AT ALL TIMES and a ticket is merely a contract of travel and is not a reciept nor proof of purchase. Platform tickets are open to abuse, i.e. all the chavs would buy a 20p platform ticket to get through the barriers, then jump on a train, as for on train checks, then this really isn't as easy as it used to be, the Train manager has far more to do now rather than check tickets, I still believe that TM^‡(resolve)'s should always check tickets once their primary duties are complete, but with things such as SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) it really isn't practical anymore. As for being customer unfriendly, well unfortunately there are too many "customers" who think that it is their right to travel for free!

[west49th]

Yes Vacman. But that does not mean that you should punish the 99% of people who are honest in order to catch the 1% of ones who are not. Because that's what the barriers do. And the very word - "barrier" - demonstrates what Andrew Haines admitted to in the Guardian a couple of weeks back - a "disconnect between the company and its customers".

Can you imagine Sainsbury's insisting that their shoppers go through barriers before entering? Of course not.

[Conner]

9) the barriers are sophisticated enough to let you out of the station and then back in a few hours later. (so for example you can buy a Paper from Smiths at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) between trains)

You are not actually alowed to do that with or without barriers. You have a ticket which wil specifically have the condition No Break in Journey, leaving the platforms consists of a break in journey, which is not allowed.

[west49th]

9) the barriers are sophisticated enough to let you out of the station and then back in a few hours later. (so for example you can buy a Paper from Smiths at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) between trains)

You are not actually alowed to do that with or without barriers. You have a ticket which wil specifically have the condition No Break in Journey, leaving the platforms consists of a break in journey, which is not allowed.

Blimey. Do the conditions of carriage specify a dress code too?

[swlines]

9) the barriers are sophisticated enough to let you out of the station and then back in a few hours later. (so for example you can buy a Paper from Smiths at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) between trains)

You are not actually alowed to do that with or without barriers. You have a ticket which wil specifically have the condition No Break in Journey, leaving the platforms consists of a break in journey, which is not allowed.

I'd say more tickets have a break in journey allowance... the only major ones that I can think of that don't are Advance Purchase and Saver Returns (outward portion).