Those barriers - whose idea?

[whole diary]

[west49th]

There was a piece in Wednesday's Western Mornng News saying that the barriers sent out a terrible signal to passengers - "we don't trust you, even if you've just shelled out hundreds on a ticket".

Anyone know whether the barriers in Devon (the ones at Exeter have ruined the flow of the station) were FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s idea or DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)'s?

[Conner]

Probably FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s as they get extra income, the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) don't usually have a say in these sort of things.

[John R]

I thought in some instances they were actually specified as part of the franchise commitment?

[devon_metro]

I thought in some instances they were actually specified as part of the franchise commitment?

I would imagine they are.

They are useful anyway and its a sign of a modern railway!

[Btline]

Come on, barriers are good.

Yes- they might reduce flow, but a bigger, wider concourse is the answer to that, barriers or no barriers!

But- they improve security, safety, reduce fare dodgers, and take the pressure off guards to do a complete ticket check each time (of course, they still should- but they are safe in the knowledge that if they have to turn around before completing the train, there is less of a chance of a dodger/ticket-less person is present).

They are also useful at doing passenger counts.

I would rather my local stations had barriers, and therefore had a more restricted flow, because I know that those fare dodgers would have to pay.

Of course, I realise that some stops (e.g. Finstock) can't realistically have barriers!

[vacman]

- "we don't trust you, even if you've just shelled out hundreds on a ticket".

So you'd want to be even more sure that no one else has had the same journey for free! Like em or not, barriers are here to stay and are a necessity in this day and age as there are far too many people who we can't trust! Oh, they were part of the franchise spec aswell, and so were penalty fares.

[Phil]

Like em or not, barriers are here to stay and are a necessity in this day and age as there are far too many people who we can't trust!

Talk of  "this day and age" reminds me of something that occurred to me the other day. Back in the 1960s my father used to commute weekly from Chippenham to London. I can clearly remember waving him off on a Warship- or Western-hauled train on a Sunday (and welcoming him back again on a Friday) and in order to get onto the platform, Mum and me used to have to buy a platform ticket each, mine being a Junior one obviously. I still have one somewhere - I think they cost 6d. There were no barriers: just a uniformed employee stood at the entrance at the bottom of the stairs, checking that every single person that passed had a ticket of some sort.

My question is this then: surely train operators are missing out on a potential revenue stream today by not having platform tickets available for people who aren't actually travelling? Or would the fact that a platform ticket enables someone to legitimately pass through the barrier at any given station for a very small sum of money make the guard on the train's job that much harder? (although, no more difficult than it was 40+ years ago, presumably)

[tom-langley]

It^s about time if you ask me.

I travel from Langley to Paddington on a regular basis and I always buy a ticket, but I only very occasionally had my ticket checked at any point on the journey.

But because Langley and many other surrounding stations are either not manned or have no barriers (Slough being the exception) many people travel without a ticket and simply just get off at Paddington, where as I have forked out for a ticket.

I understand why these unmanned/quiet stations do not have ticket barriers, but why Paddington?

On a slightly different matter:

I arrived at Langley station the other day with about 10 mins to spare, only to find that the automatic ticket machine was not working. So I had to queue at the ticket office, which was about 15 deep. As a result I missed my train by seconds. Could I legitimately have bought a permit to travel and caught the train I missed or would it not be valid as the ticket office was open? (Not that anyone checked my ticket)

[Ollie]

Paddington is a tricky one, it is a listed building, so planning permission was difficult. You will be half pleased to know that Platforms 10-14 will have barriers installed. And the process has already begun so we should hopefully see them soon.

[WashuChan]

I honestly find barriers to be a great thing to have in place, because I honestly feel a bit..well I guess cheated knowing full well that the pair of "chavs" (is that okay to use here? I know it does sometimes offend people) have just run onto the platform and not paid a fair when they jump off at Portchester or Cosham.

The great problem with some places as meantioned about, is that some stations are indeed listed buildings and it costs the operator a lot more money then its worth to them to protect revenues. They tend to make this up when people are caught and fined ^20 or double the cost of the ticket wanted, but this isnt always the case with the above being meantioned.

Several stations along the route I take to work or to visit my other half have no guard, no station staff and in one case no ticket machine! So I can see how it be a bit silly to put ticket barriers in place when no one's there to stop people getting over them by just jumping over.

The major problem we have with installing them is the age of the British network, because most of the buildings are 50 years old, the designs aren't built around the times reflected, back in the era the stations were created people were more trusting, more honest and more decent. Today's society seems to reflect that doing less is better and not paying for things when you can get away with it is alright.

The only way I can see more ticket barriers being put into place is  re-design (not smashing them down) the station to make it harder for people to access the platform, but in turn this will have knock on effects elsewhere.

[Lee]

I honestly find barriers to be a great thing to have in place, because I honestly feel a bit..well I guess cheated knowing full well that the pair of "chavs" (is that okay to use here? I know it does sometimes offend people) have just run onto the platform and not paid a fair when they jump off at Portchester or Cosham.

I share the sentiments on some of the characters you refer to, but I will let grahame answer the "chavs" question.

They do sometimes have ticket checks at the Cosham station exits, but in my experience this isnt a regular thing.

A story relevant to this subject can be found in the link below, along with billyo getting caught up in a Weymouth line cancellation and bus replacement.
http://billyosstressrelief.blogspot.com/2008/03/worse-at-weekends.html

[west49th]

Blimey - you're all an obedient lot!

Three points.

First, there's no way that a Tesco could treat its customers in this way. It's the equivalent of frisking them when they leave the store.

Second, the barriers are a nightmare for old people, or those with lots of luggage and/or kids.

Third, when the Great Western really was great, such things did not exist. They didn't need to then, and they don't need to now.

[WashuChan]

Blimey - you're all an obedient lot!

Three points.

First, there's no way that a Tesco could treat its customers in this way. It's the equivalent of frisking them when they leave the store.

Second, the barriers are a nightmare for old people, or those with lots of luggage and/or kids.

Third, when the Great Western really was great, such things did not exist. They didn't need to then, and they don't need to now.

First - Tesco's have security staff, security cameras and a team watching them at all times to prevent this from occuring. Thats pretty much the same.

Second - Tough luck sadly.

Third - They need them now because back then we didn't *have* so many people jumping the queues and not paying the fares. Times change, so should the methods to catch those who break the rules and make others deal with the increasing fees for trains.

[miniman]

In this day and age they are a necessary evil, but I wish a bit more thought was given to adapting stations to enable them to be used. Good example is Temple Meads where there's only physically enough space for 6 gates (I think, might be 7) in the old exit from platform 3. So every morning hundreds of us who have paid for a ticket have to queue up to get through 3 working exit gates, which seem to randomly reject every third ticket. Same goes for Bath Spa since the refurb where the exit is now gloomy and no doubt business for the coffee shop has been ruined.

[Doctor Gideon Ceefax]

Personally I don't know why fare paying passengers are so against barriers. If it keeps the fare dodgers, and other assorted vermin off the system (muggers, druggies, violent drunks and so on) then good. Surely passengers should support this, as it helps to keep them safe.

A bit of inconvience queueing is better than having to put up with mindless thugs on the network.

The ticket barriers do have larger gates, so those with mobility problems or lots of luggage should be allowed through them. If there is an issue with staff not manning the larger gates or not letting such passengers through them, then this does need to be rectified.