GWRF2020-intro. Great Western Rail Franchise Consultation - Forum Overview

[whole diary]

[grahame]

The Great Western Rail Franchise Public Consultation was launched on 29th November 2017, and will close on 21 February 2018.

The complete document is (here) and I have mirrored it (here) to ensure the context remains available after the consultation has closed.

I am about to post a separate thread for each consultation question for dicussion (may not have time to do them all today).  I will title them GWRF2020-01 to GWRF2020-18 for easy refenence later.  A further post GWRF2020-00 will refer to sections of the consultation document which are in fact statements and do not solicit input.

For Gloucestershire, Greater Bristol, Wiltshire, Somerset, Dorset, Devon and Cornwall, TravelWatch SouthWest are planning an event in January to listen to the views of their 100+ member organsations and make umbrella comments, much of this likely to be based on "Connecting the Dots" downloadable via http://travelwatchsouthwest.org/documents/  I suggest that member organsations and independent campaigners keep 15th January 2018 clear in their diaries.

The Peninsular Rail Task Force have tweeted that they'll be holding a conference on 19th January

Views would be welcome concerning whether we should make a co-ordinated input from the Coffee Shop.  We are certainly likely to see responses to the threads in this series (and if we don't, many of the anwsers can be found in past posts) and it would seem we could make a valuable contribution.  I am minded to suggest a mid-region get together on 7th or 14th January at either Swindon or Didcot (yes, railway is mostly open in the area those Sundays!) ... to firm up on that by 14th December once we get member's views.

The South Western Timetable consultation continues - (here) and I will be addressing regional responses from the Southampton - Swindon corridor in a document to be uploaded here tomorrow (1st December) once the drafts have been seen all around.  This consultation closes on 22nd December.

A further ongoing consultation relating to Community Rail (closing date late January) is also live and worth members responding to.

[Kernow Otter]

Many thanks for posting that information, link, and sub topics.  Most useful, much appreciated.

[JayMac]

Is there any point consulting on a future franchise when it seems that FirstGroup are just going to keep getting extensions to the current one?

[grahame]

Is there any point consulting on a future franchise when it seems that FirstGroup are just going to keep getting extensions to the current one?

Even for the cynic, yes there is, as you / we / they (DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)) can help shape what First (or a. n. other) are required to do

[grahame]

Went along to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) public franchise consultation session this morning to observe (Bristol not being my area) and to learn a bit prior to the Trowbridge event.  As it's a public meeting I guess I can post up my notes here - please excuse the poor smell checking

Steve, Matt, Mike, NR^» (Network Rail - home page), Peter

Transport for Greater Bristol, FoSBR^» (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways - site), Severnside

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Presentation

14% seacons  31% full fares 54% reduced
228 train sets

changes - last bullet "investment n the wide comunity"
* New service pattern - London and SW peninsular

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for Transport Focus

Slides avaialble if interested
Note differenr shape curves for satisfaction for service groups
   ** could be used as split arg by DfT?
punctaulity and information are key

Passengers expect "on time" to mean it! / PPM^‡(resolve) 5 or 10 mins
move towards passenger objectives

Unplanned disrup - INFORMATION wanted / accurate and timely
planned - T12 obligation
Diverted trains rather than buses

Passengrs keen to see ONE perso in charge

TF wants - core product delivery.
- Focus on customer expereicne (DfT comment - specific groups / luggage, diablesd etc to be considerd)

Build personaised relationsip / communications to individual needs

QN - overcrowdings [missing from presentation] and its influence on above.
From DfT - clearly a massive problam and makes for an opportunity in Bristol
Should start seeing it better.
PW^▸ (Permanent Way) - SoS - 2012 objectives faster, capacity. Huge minister objective

QN - why not a financial penalty on Passenger Charter miss / 1/3 fare back?
Has not been met any week in 10 years

DO £6.8m paid out annually already. Delay repay in discussion. Qn is overcrowding
QN - "New trains won't fix"
DO - these issues need to come out. Where pressure points will be
QN - franchise says 2 coaches.  To be fair to GW^▸ (Great Western) - gone up to 5.

DfT - present cacade does some - is it enough?

-------------

Exisitig operator to 2022
Should we split
Integrate track and train

--

Continue consultation
- to direct through next few years
- maximise benefirts for next franchise
Coninuted must deliver forpassengers
Keep option of revert to comeptiton if no continuation can be agreed

"Very interest" in VIEWS on split - is split, is it the right split?
In and out elements.  "Occasional" Brighton services - better homed elsewhere / Southern?
- with trains released to GW?

Split
- NOT a Devon and Cornwall. Heard clearly!
- NOT decisde on
- learned to keep branches with main ine
- avoid complexity of complexity orf multiple operators at London termini
- potential tuning for local use
- poential more bidders
- need to ensure co-ordianeion, complexity, operational resilience

* QN - What about WoE running their own services?
DfT - can take qn away
QN - Mayor not here today - but not showing underground on map.
DR - local devolution WOULD be better than splitting the franchise
need a political buy in; DfT should not be relied upon.  need business units?
DfT - We are keen to see MetroWest developing
JW - Metrowest will be at the heart of the response

QN - hard to answer without knowing services are. e.g. intercity used for commuter flow
Think it will make it difficult with limited interaction.   Such spaghetti that huge
risk of unintended consequences.
DfT - could be different business units within same franchise?
Can see why that could be quite attractive; COULD be a step to evolution
Council advisor - don't care who runs it. One ticket, connections.
Even with current capacity better, still problems in future.
Through trains - e.g. Portishead to London and doesn't work cross franchise.
~Could help local capacity

QN - (DR) Arena - Filton or Centre - need IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) to handle loacl as well as long distance

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Integrate track and train
In 2 years can only step

Role for franchisee including enhancements

QN - does an integrated unit deal with long term infrastructire management
Needs long term work; not being looked after at present
DfT - not easy over just 2 years
DfT - it IS important to maintain over all.
PW - This franchise will NOT change rail structure. Important - issue recongised
QN - shoddy job of Portbury line has caused new problems

------

Timetable - see photo

How to respond - see photo

Please concentrate on FRANCHISE and not current problems

---------------

QN - quality has gone down over 20 year. Would you be required to meet ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) 2014 document?
   - would suggest that TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) will squeal and say no.
DfT - clearly ask what's important

DR - Disability - getting stations up and accessible.  Worried about shorttermism
Worried how it fits in on two year award. Thinks will stop.
Also security and policing.  CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) .  Should not be left to First Group to provide.
Question / new franchise - strange date in relation to 2022 election. So 2024 better.
DfT ... we absolutley take point on long term view and staging
Although ops for small number years ARE developing beyond
DR - don't want to loose impetus

JS - Continued operation to Portsmouth / consideration of Brighton
DfT - Abslutely NO intent to continue Portsmouth; talk is purel brighton

QN - Rolling stock "very ancient" but is dire need for new(er) stock.  Knock on effect on
productivity / trains breaking down
DfT - please input. Very much aware. Problem not necessaily relating to age. (e.g. HST^▸ (High Speed Train) popular)
Unlikely that new stock specified in 3 years
BUT options on improving current stock in frachinse

QN - observation - best I've heard that DfT are looking well ahead
- consistent lack of aniticpation of rate of growth.  Note housing grown in WoE
DfT - struck with extra housing.
QN - Severn Beach longer trains already filled.

QN - Always more demand than can be safified.  Expect 30 minute, then 5 car, then more frequent
- need to redual some tracks. (SVB, WSM)
- We want to see 20 minutes ... may as well make 15 minute.  Then turn up and go.
- Current rail passenger counts low.
- In time, rail will need Henbury Loop not spur.
* DfT - "You're preaching to the converted"
PW - CP lead time is 3 years. CP7 planning starts 2021, estimated needed by 2021. Think NOW
QN - People want a cup of coffee at the station; would like accessabily before I need it

QN - Note other franchsies interate buses
QN - Not in franchise - no way to work with freight operators on same track.
DfT - important point / opportunity for conversation
QN - planning for future depots
DfT - problem is because no contractual organisaion

KW - Emphasis on money in current GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) for rebuilding of InterCity Stations.
New franchise needs a pot for local station. We can try but needs proper consideration.

CB (FoSBR) - frustrated an no-one taking long term vision.  Need one stop shop.
- desparate need rail to have higher capacity. Already there / separate from road
- who will convene expertise / franchise to franchise loop.
- Some of us think community rail
- WECA^» (West of England Combined Authority - about) not taking ownneship - nor Bristol City
Dft - Political points above my head.
- Let's just look at the 2 year / 4 year award and not redo the whole system!
- But that may be part of the journey .. so be thinking further ahead.
DR - we need to help WECA (and bring in North Somerset)
- turn back at Yate and Batheaston are bonkers.
- give it some rail strategy powers
Dft - Political not in here (stopped David with "can I answer please" ;-) )
DR - Airport involved?  Looking for real vision
- mind not made up as to how to do it
DfT - looking to get up there this afternoon

QN - GW are good at requesting extra stops.
Could new franchise ensure CURRENT full system continues (STJ^▸ (Severn Tunnel Junction railway station))
DfT - Have highlighted

QN - Pilning - "fat lot of use" - eyesore.  Lovely catchment. New business.
- GWR will stop trains if a business case.
DR - also in Local Enterprise Zone
Dft - Please deliver case.   Need evidence for usage

DR - What about Temple Meads [rebuild] - make fit for purpose.
- Huge issues to LEP^» (Local Enterprise Partnership - about).  Lots of promises. Crying out for Govt. Money.
- I know outside frachinse BUT
DfT agreed - outside franchsine. Importan to thnk of whole area.
DR - constrain on network

QN - Valid Routes / Caldict
- where quicker than via "permitted route"
PW - not franchise

[Western Pathfinder]

Smells about right to me ,I think that you have managed to cover just about everything from today's meeting only sorry that we didn't have a chance to catch-up as I was nabbed by the nice people from FoBSR.

[grahame]

Smells about right to me ,I think that you have managed to cover just about everything from today's meeting only sorry that we didn't have a chance to catch-up as I was nabbed by the nice people from FoBSR.

Must nab you on an issue - you raise it in one way,  and the folks I walked from Temple Meads with raised something similar.   See personal message sent.

[Western Pathfinder]

PM sent in reply.

[grahame]

Went along to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) public franchise consultation session this morning to observe (Bristol not being my area) and to learn a bit prior to the Trowbridge event.  As it's a public meeting I guess I can post up my notes here - please excuse the poor smell checking

And from Trowbridge today - "home turf" for me - actually said something this time - pre-meeting note for self at http://atrebatia.info/dft_20180124.pdf .

Again, please excuse the note form of this and the appalling smell (I mean spell ..) . [[ to ]] are my asides 

Around 35 people / 2 from DfT (Matt and Steve), Nina (Transport Focus), Matt Barnes (GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway))

* Matt (DfT)

Format - half presentation, half Q&A, short time for 1 to 1

"Really big and diverse - makes it unique ... just about every service type"
Huge change over next couple of years.
Baseline 2020 will be quite difference from what you see today

* Nina Howe

About Transport forcus

Satisfaction on GWR gone down
46% Punctulity and reliability
then confort
then station environment

Priorities for improvement / relative importance
1. Prices
2. Get a seat
3. Train on time
4. No cancels and disruption
5. Frequent enough trains
6. Free WiFi

Stations
1. Toilets
2. Platform Seating
3. Free Wifi
4. Shelter

Right time not industry standard is key

Unplanned - need to be accurate

Planned - T-12 for informed traveller
- Diverted trains not buses
- Support on ground on the day

Future shape
- TF tends not to ask about structure but
- want a joined up railway
- more concerned at quality than structure

Ambition to improve passenger experience
Restricted mobily
Good staff interaction, building customer relations.

** Matt

Plans ahead - asking (again!) about split of franchise

[repeat much from Bristol]

No decision on length from 2022 - typically 7 to 10 years
Consultation is about BOTH steps

No sense / appetite for starting process for franchise in 12 mos with all changes taking part
Also opportunity / 2 years is opportunity to end

This 2 year is NOT to be a holding period but look to benefits

Word NOT in "objectives" but should (have been/be) is connectivity.
Reassurance for Wiltshire in particular

Emphasis - split NOT a "done deal" [[ but my goodness the discussion is being pushed hard - looking
for supporters so they can say "we had x thousand supporters" ]].  DfT - note danger of non-profit routes not
being ignored.  Looking for more focus to particular markets if split.  Also bidder appetite.  Dft selling
the idea of split (but not the benefits of staying together!)

But "lessons of 10 - 15 years ago" - clearly some beneifits of being together.  Diversion routes and resillince lost

Track and Train integration - NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) on modest enhancements

What CAN be delivered, 2020 to 2022?
But other things beyond - FOR EXAMPLE if Infrastructure things, and future of older diesel stock

Note - some ongoing work already on digesting expected responses
- deliverable?
- accomodated on Network?
- value for money?
- strategic?
Not just numerical analysis but above

Unusually long prep time - Dec '18 to April '20
"Expect" 2022 long term franchise take over

Best response online.
1. Form
2. ms doc
3. email
4. post
Clear, as concise as possible. Solutions not problems.  Supporting evidence.
Make sure you say where you agree and where you disagee [[ agree and examples ;-) ]]

Floor -----

PJ for Nina - background for data
Problem with data - 65% to 70% London commuters, but 14% tickets are seasons
No connection questions in survey; does not reflect our world.  We suffer long delays.
NH - Insight team can tell you about weighting to be representative
PJ - just 19 on TransWilts / zero at Chippenham
NH - Can't be as granual.   Will get back on split
MT - Bound to be some generallity

HP - to support Paul.  Hard to read.  Please send slide set
MT - email sides to all.

PaulB - re Frome and Westbury.  Will there be a serious renegotiation for 2020?
MT - Will be a new contract
Qn because other areas nothing added
A - this will be different; able to consult on this extension
PB - Improved long desitance, Westbury good service, Bristol to Frome - possible if whole area rationalised.
MT - points made. Real opportunity for WSB^» (Westbury - next trains) hub.

SHRUG (DF) - fully agree.  Looking for through services to WELL beyond Exeter
DfT - 2 hourly or more frequent
SHRUG - potential for day trips.   Also CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains)-PMH overcrowding
DfT - Turbo most pracgamit way to provide CDF - PMH capacity.

Peter Lay - Devizes Parkway. Land 3 miles from town.
1. Build ecomoic arguments - hits objectives in franchise request. Support station from employers
Poor highway connectivity for town. Third party delivered scheme largely self financing & within 2022 franchise
BUT need services to stop and connectivity. With WSB and RDG^‡(resolve) and beyond.
MT - useful to hear.  You are pusing on open door.

Peter Pearson - Corsham
Franchise too much looking for EXISTING rail users
1 or 2 mins "almost insigniricnat".  Rail journeys have to be accessed by road at CPM^» (Chippenham - next trains) and BTH^» (Bath Spa - next trains)
Total journey to station more important.
Negative unemployment. New Stations could make big difference.
[[ no comment on funding ... marked difference to Devizes case. ]]

JG - High speed at Devizes would be sensible
MT - Qn at RDG yesterday. BDW turn around is historic. Overall B&H^▸ (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury) in long distance dbcasue integratetion possible

GE Case / tying in together - see http://atrebatia.info/dft_20180124.pdf
(Tied in Devizes, Corsham, Frome too in talking it through)
MT 1. Confirm CR continuity
2. On face of it, join up makes huge sense
3. SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) / GWR have to work together and are doing so

Lance Allan - about a split.  Question - how should we respond?
MT - no easy answer. Hearing strong message about tying up.
You might suggest that SWI^» (Swindon - next trains) split may have TransWilts issues [[ totally correct, Matt! ]]
May look at devolution within operator [[ Yes - much more sensible ]]
DR - My journey here all joined up. All same transport co.  Line down.  Integrated
Chris Grayling - (1) not run for money but for services
Western Region structure is what you have / it worked

DR - Equalites act .
Dorchester West - can leave but not join trains
Access for all - need to go though qualities.  Trowbridge no lifts. Work done by WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority)), etc
Heart of Wessex - Bruton issue.  Yeovil not fit for purpose
Ask for fully evaluated for accessability.  Highligtning Dorchester.
Trouble in this area - lack of accessible taxis.
Ask for disability group assessment and equality plan.
NB stalled schemes WSM, CNM^» (Cheltenham Spa - next trains), Nailsea ... hate break up idea
Northern and GTR have not been broken up.  You should deal with them

PJ - look at cross platform connections. 4 minute connection cannot make.
Also difficult for mothers with buggies
Platform logicistice needed Salisbury and Westbury
Past era - deciding on structure.  Lots of muddle and mess.
Frightens me that 2 years to break down and set up befor your next changes; should be delivering not changing the process
Improve please but don't throw away for grand theory that won't the realised for a number of years
MT - lot of good sense - please make those inputs; make at *political level too*

Colin Dale - good services east, nowt westwards. Tried to support buses - also difficult.
Want to see increase based on population
Why say "not Cornwall and Devon franchise" - concern at race from London to The West
MT - DIFFERENT proposition to that one.
PRTF, faster v community needs - recognise need, should not be at expense of connectivity; not a good idea to take call out to short term sped up by five minutes.  Need to look at whole pattern, quite different to what's there today.
"D & C have said they don't want their own franchise to run just their trains"
SA (DfT) - aware of industry models not taking extremes into account.

DP - on Cross boundary service.
SWR fulfilling contract obligation. What is change of yerilding something
MT - specifically asked SWR to work with GWR - general good opportunity
MB (GWR) - intention ideas very much joined up, things that are actionable should things be worthwhile
Qute a good moment.  Helps that Andy Mellors knows us; joint working group at director level.
Supportive and working in that direction

PJ - based on CG statemnt on hydrogen trains - does this kill CPM to BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) electificatio
MT - outside granchise, can't answer

DR - split may bring in third company.  More joined up.  66% of public want joined up

DP - Significnat towns off rail network.  What scope in franchise to incentive / compel links to work?
SA - I am VERY keen on this.  Increasingly issue of integrated ticketing.
Very keen to mature smart card schemes. Can't solve every single problem but come make specific looks.

DR - Make sure as much bus and rail integration as possible.
Make it a franchise obligation.

[grahame]

DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have sent a set of the presentation slides used in Trowbridge (same set used for the whole series) to those of us who requested them - THANK YOU.   Mirrors - (DfT Presentation) and (Transport Focus Presentation)

[rogerw]

I received mine today

[grahame]

A further take on this meeting from The Wiltshire Times

HEALTHY debate sprung up at a public meeting in Trowbridge over the best way of improving and increasing the number of train services in Wiltshire.

Great Western Rail Service representatives held a Q&A session at the Civic Hall on Wednesday to discuss improving routes from Trowbridge and Westbury to London, better connections across the county and on campaigns for new stations in Corsham and at Devizes Parkway.

The 40 or so attendees, including town council staff, locals and rail user group members, all agreed on having more services between the above places and from Swindon to Westbury, Westbury to Salisbury and Salisbury to Southampton, but differed on how best to deliver it. That involved either splitting the Great Western Franchise in 2022 or not.

[etc]

Note that you cannot believe everything you read in the press ... starting with the fact that the meeting was DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) organised and hosted, and not "Great Western Rail Service representatives ...".

[Lee]

DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) stakeholder briefing document and consultation response published today - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/736146/great-western-rail-franchise-stakeholder-briefing-document.pdf

[grahame]

DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) stakeholder briefing document and consultation response published today - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/736146/great-western-rail-franchise-stakeholder-briefing-document.pdf

Many thanks for that link, Lee ... a little light reading  ... see you when I surface!

Edit to add - What a long URL - mirror at http://gwr.passenger.chat/gwf_consult_output.pdf

[CMRail]

DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) stakeholder briefing document and consultation response published today - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/736146/great-western-rail-franchise-stakeholder-briefing-document.pdf

Thank you for the link. I was surprised at the small amount of Thames Valley Passengers it mentions did not specify their location or did not do the survey. They probably have been hit lucky with 8 car electric trains, but the reliability down there isn’t too great.

I took part in the survey and commented on InterCity and West services. West seems to be more unreliable st the moment, however, sunday service on HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) isn’t exactly amazing. I mentioned about missing out stops for more direct services (ie Gloucester Cheltenham) which could reduce up to 15 minutes off the current timings, however, catering for Gloucester at the same time.