Dont judge a book by its cover......

[whole diary]

[Mookiemoo]

There is one particular train guard that does this ....

Tonight, was standing on the platform at Reading when the despatch staff announce that SC should move half way down the platform.  I position myself where the buffet pulls up.  Train manager opens the door, lets off the passengers and says to me "This is first class".  To which I said, "yes I know".  So he waits a few seconds and says "SC is towards the front of the train"  and I said "I am aware of that".  So he said "I'm only trying to help" in a very snotty voice.

So I sat down was working away when he comes storming up (note - he's not done a ticket check for others getting on) and says "Can I see your First Class ticket madam".  He then studies it in minute detail before thrusting it back at me.

This is incidentally the second time the same guard has done this.  ABout two years ago, the same scenario on reading platform.  I get on, and go to the bar - he comes up behind me and demands I show my ticket there and then.  I said, its with my stuff, I'll show it to you when I finish - I got frog marched back mid transaction to produce my ticket there and then"

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS A GROTTY T SHIRT AND JEANS OR TRACK SUIT BOTTOMS DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE NOT FC^▸ (First Class, or Fat Controller, or Football Club, depending on context)

[miniman]

:bites tongue:

[mada]

First are complete b*****ds. This evening they decided to train staff in the ticket office during peak time and because of their ineptitude the queue was ridiculous. I asked the barrier staff nicely if I could go through as my train was due in 5 minutes but they then refused. I had to wait an hour for the next train due to the fact that First are so obsessed with profit that they insist on treating everyone like a criminal.

That guard was completely out of order Mookie, I hate the fact that they assume if you're not smartly dressed you don't have a 1st class ticket.



(Reason for edit: complaints received over use of profanity)

[vacman]

I agree mookiemoo, spose it wouldn't have been all that bad if he'd at least appologised at the end!

[Mookiemoo]

:bites tongue:

No - my issue is with no ticket checks being done!  I never judge people by how they look - the only time I know they arent FC^▸ (First Class, or Fat Controller, or Football Club, depending on context) is when they boast about it.

[Doctor Gideon Ceefax]

Unfortunately part of life, if you don't 'look first class', you are likely to be targeted, due to prejudices, probably based on experience. It's not right, but it happens.

I've been a victim of this when I've been travelling off duty at weekends (usually on Virgin West Coast), and have had the misfortune of ending up travelling back when all the football supporters are being loaded onto the trains by the transport police, and normal punters are being sent into first class, with standard being fillled up by the usual bunch of casuals and troublemakers. Because I've got a skinhead (due to losing hair!!), I've been stopped and searched and been directed to the "animal coach", and I've been forced to whip out my staff pass and track safety card to ensure I travel with decent society!

Experienced staff can usually tell who should and shouldn't be in first due to the demeanour of the person, rather than the appearance as such. It's not 100% accurate, and hard to describe, but I certainly can tell from experience whether a punter is going to 1) have a valid ticket 2) pay an upgrade straight off, 3) piss around and argue but eventually upgrade or 4) require being sent down to standard or kicked off the train.

Those that have no right to be in there generally give the game away straight away, but unless you are 99.9% sure, never target someone individually, it could backfire and it also looks very unprofessional.

[Doctor Gideon Ceefax]

First are complete b*****ds. This evening they decided to train staff in the ticket office during peak time and because of their ineptitude the queue was ridiculous. I asked the barrier staff nicely if I could go through as my train was due in 5 minutes but they then refused. I had to wait an hour for the next train due to the fact that First are so obsessed with profit that they insist on treating everyone like a criminal.

Not just great western, but all operators have this policy. Unfortunately a significant number of people will abuse the system if they have the chance, and it's the honest passenger who suffers. Some staff appear to refuse to use discretion, possibly because of fear of being reported to their managers, and possibly because of the amount of scum and liars they face day in day out, and unfortunately the 'trust nobody mentality' is the result of this.

A more flexible solution could be for the barrier staff to contact the platform staff and say that the ticket office is extremely busy and that a few passengers need to catch the train, and let them through. Then the platform staff could ask the guard of the train if he is willing to sell them tickets onboard, and if he is (and again if discretion is in use, he should be, because there is no evidence of fare dodging as the passengers have shown the willingness to pay), then they should be let on. A winning situation all round I should think, as the passenger gets where they want to go on time, and the guard gets some takings without working hard for them! Common sense?

[Mookiemoo]

I agree mookiemoo, spose it wouldn't have been all that bad if he'd at least appologised at the end!

To be fair - as we came out of evesham I went to get a top up and mentioned to the buffet girl (who is a regular and knows me and knows I am not usually annoyed with the staff)

About five minutes later, guard comes down sits next to me and we made up - he said he recognised me later as a regular (five days a week regular I may add) - he always says the same at reading to stop the SC traipse but he did acknowledge maybe pointing it out once and then not acting like the gestapo (his words not mine) might help

I did point out that, the problem is if he'd done it to a suited and booted passenger there probably would not have been an issue.  But people who regard themselves as respected for what they do not where they buy their clothes often get this treatment so are probably more sensitive.

I think the worst part was despatch had been going on for five minutes that SC should move forward therefore anyone still at that end either genuinely was FC^▸ (First Class, or Fat Controller, or Football Club, depending on context) or an idiot

[vacman]

First are complete b*****ds. This evening they decided to train staff in the ticket office during peak time and because of their ineptitude the queue was ridiculous. I asked the barrier staff nicely if I could go through as my train was due in 5 minutes but they then refused. I had to wait an hour for the next train due to the fact that First are so obsessed with profit that they insist on treating everyone like a criminal.

A more flexible solution could be for the barrier staff to contact the platform staff and say that the ticket office is extremely busy and that a few passengers need to catch the train, and let them through. Then the platform staff could ask the guard of the train if he is willing to sell them tickets onboard, and if he is (and again if discretion is in use, he should be, because there is no evidence of fare dodging as the passengers have shown the willingness to pay), then they should be let on. A winning situation all round I should think, as the passenger gets where they want to go on time, and the guard gets some takings without working hard for them! Common sense?

Or the gateline staff could have used their Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) machine to sell tickets to people for the next train, which they do at Plymouth and Exeter, not something that should be done for everyone, but a common sense approach to the above problem.

[John R]

Would you rather today's TM^▸ (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context) or the one that let's the SC passengers sit in first whilst you have to stand?

[Mookiemoo]

Would you rather today's TM^▸ (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context) or the one that let's the SC passengers sit in first whilst you have to stand?

Todays TM - especially since after I explained why I was annoyed he said he has taken it on board an may only point out the SC location once in future (that was the bit that annoyed - not the being told this was FC^▸ (First Class, or Fat Controller, or Football Club, depending on context) but 30 seconds later being told to move up the platform)

But what I want is one that doesnt pre judge but ejects non paying SC out of FC (yes there are a small number who would not co operate but 99% do - most of the total oiks want to travel without paying at all)

[mada]

But what I want is one that doesnt pre judge but ejects non paying SC out of FC^▸ (First Class, or Fat Controller, or Football Club, depending on context) (yes there are a small number who would not co operate but 99% do - most of the total oiks want to travel without paying at all)

One who actually does their job then! I can't see why people are comparing the two incidents which are clearly different with the only similarity being a train manager behaving in a less than exemplary fashion!

[John R]

But what I want is one that doesnt pre judge but ejects non paying SC out of FC^▸ (First Class, or Fat Controller, or Football Club, depending on context) (yes there are a small number who would not co operate but 99% do - most of the total oiks want to travel without paying at all)

One who actually does their job then! I can't see why people are comparing the two incidents which are clearly different with the only similarity being a train manager behaving in a less than exemplary fashion!

Being the "people" that you refer to, I just thought it was a bit contradictory that Mookie was complaining a few days ago about TMs^▸ (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context) not doing anything to keep SC passengers out and now she was complaining that one was being overzealous in doing just that. But you're right, what we all want is someone that does their job spot on without the extremes of either behaviour.

[Btline]

I agree mookiemoo, spose it wouldn't have been all that bad if he'd at least appologised at the end!

To be fair - as we came out of evesham I went to get a top up and mentioned to the buffet girl (who is a regular and knows me and knows I am not usually annoyed with the staff)

About five minutes later, guard comes down sits next to me and we made up - he said he recognised me later as a regular (five days a week regular I may add) - he always says the same at reading to stop the SC traipse but he did acknowledge maybe pointing it out once and then not acting like the gestapo (his words not mine) might help

I did point out that, the problem is if he'd done it to a suited and booted passenger there probably would not have been an issue.  But people who regard themselves as respected for what they do not where they buy their clothes often get this treatment so are probably more sensitive.

I think the worst part was despatch had been going on for five minutes that SC should move forward therefore anyone still at that end either genuinely was FC^▸ (First Class, or Fat Controller, or Football Club, depending on context) or an idiot

Why did you not mention this apology in your OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter)?
 

[Mookiemoo]

I agree mookiemoo, spose it wouldn't have been all that bad if he'd at least appologised at the end!

To be fair - as we came out of evesham I went to get a top up and mentioned to the buffet girl (who is a regular and knows me and knows I am not usually annoyed with the staff)

About five minutes later, guard comes down sits next to me and we made up - he said he recognised me later as a regular (five days a week regular I may add) - he always says the same at reading to stop the SC traipse but he did acknowledge maybe pointing it out once and then not acting like the gestapo (his words not mine) might help

I did point out that, the problem is if he'd done it to a suited and booted passenger there probably would not have been an issue.  But people who regard themselves as respected for what they do not where they buy their clothes often get this treatment so are probably more sensitive.

I think the worst part was despatch had been going on for five minutes that SC should move forward therefore anyone still at that end either genuinely was FC^▸ (First Class, or Fat Controller, or Football Club, depending on context) or an idiot

Why did you not mention this apology in your OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter)?
 

because at the time of the op the apology had not happened - I was posting from said train around oxford - apology happened later north of moreton