Exeter (Central) to Westbury

[whole diary]

[grahame]

If I'm reading the timetables right, there's a 15:30 train change at Yeovil Junction (16:27 to 16:46) getting to Westbury at 17:33 - ideal to get back after the TWSW^» (TravelWatch SouthWest - website) AGM^▸ (Annual General Meeting) on Wednesday, not offered on the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) journey planner.  Have I missed something?

[rogerw]

The trains certainly exist.  I have caught them using a rover. I suspect that Exeter to Westbury via Yeovil is not covered in the routeing guide

[bradshaw]

Seems to be available on National Rail planning website using via YVJ option. However SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) website does not show it even with via YVJ option

[JayMac]

Not a permitted route on a through ticket. Permitted routes are via Taunton plus either Castle Cary or Bristol.

National Rail's journey planner will give you times if you specify via Yeovil Junction, but it also tells you that you need to buy more than one ticket.

Now that there are Exeter to Westbury journey opportunities wholly by rail via a change at Yeovil Junction, thanks to those additional SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) services between Waterloo and Yeovil Junction via Castle Cary, it would make sense for the Routeing Guide and journey planners to be updated to allow.

[grahame]

Seems to be available on National Rail planning website using via YVJ option. However SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) website does not show it even with via YVJ option

So it does ... but suggesting it has to be multiple tickets.   Bit of a surprise when it's faster and much more direct that the via Bristol offerings!

[JayMac]

But, hang on...

A route is permitted if it is the shortest route or no more than three miles longer than the shortest route.

The shortest route from Exeter Central to Westbury is via Exeter St Davids, Taunton and Castle Cary, avoiding Frome. That route is 79 miles and 48 chains.

The route from Exeter Central to Westbury via Yeovil Junction is 82 miles and 73 chains. If you avoid Frome. 3 miles and 25 chains longer.

So close, but no cigar! And the OPs^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) proposed journey goes via Frome. That adds another 2 miles and 11 chains.

[grahame]

But, hang on...

A route is permitted if it is the shortest route or no more than three miles longer than the shortest route.

Taking that clue, I asked for a Pinhoe to Westbury journey ... duly offered on the 15:30 ex Exeter Central that calls there at 15:34, at a price of £31.10

National Rail's journey planner will give you times if you specify via Yeovil Junction, but it also tells you that you need to buy more than one ticket.

And ups the quoted price to £41.40 (an increase of £10.30) for the extra 4 minutes.  Following that link to "buy these tickets" took me to the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) site which gave me trains to choose from ... NOT including that 15:30 which is the train I need.

Fare from Exeter Central to Pinhoe is £2.30 anytime - so I don't know where National Rail was doing the ticket split, but it certainly wasn't doing me any favours in the pricing it quoted.   

What a mess!

[grahame]

Taking that clue, I asked for a Pinhoe to Westbury journey ... duly offered on the 15:30 ex Exeter Central that calls there at 15:34, at a price of £31.10

Hang on further ... that £31.10 is an off peak any permitted.   There's a £29 anytime via Yeovil Junction.  Total single fare is £31.30 with a split at Pinhoe, and not £33.40.

[JayMac]

We have an answer to be valid then. I'm assuming the outward journey is via Taunton in the morning peak based on the start time of the TWSW^» (TravelWatch SouthWest - website) meeting.

Buy the Westbury to Pinhoe Anytime Return (Route: via Yeovil) and get a 'change of route' excess fare on the outward portion, changing the route of that portion to 'Any Permitted'. Half the difference in fares is payable as the excess.

Use that excessed outward portion to travel to Exeter Central via Taunton. Have your meeting, then continue your outward journey from Exeter Central to Pinhoe at 1530. Then, staying on the same train, start your return journey from Pinhoe to Westbury using your 'via Yeovil' return portion ticket.

All that is permitted under the conditions of travel and excess fares rules.

Fare will be:

Westbury to Pinhoe 'via Yeovil' Anytime Return, £33.40. Plus half the difference between that and the 'Any Permitted' Anytime Return (£49.40). That is £8.00.

Total: £41.40.

Maybe academic if you are getting to the meeting by alternative transport. 

(Oh, and raise the issue grahame with your GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) contacts about Westbury <-> Exeter not being valid via Yeovil. Despite there now being wholly rail journey opportunities that are quicker than the current permitted routes)

[grahame]

We have an answer to be valid then. I'm assuming the outward journey is via Taunton in the morning peak based on the start time of the TWSW^» (TravelWatch SouthWest - website) meeting.

[snip]

Total: £41.40.

Maybe academic if you are getting to the meeting by alternative transport. 

(Oh, and raise the issue grahame with your GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) contacts about Westbury <-> Exeter not being valid via Yeovil. Despite there now being wholly rail journey opportunities that are quicker than the current permitted routes)

Many thanks for that ... and indeed I *may* ... or I could head out earlier from Westbury via Salisbury (which is also via Yeovil) and do a "simple" split at Pinhoe.   Of course the question then comes ... would a split be better at some other station between Yeovil Junction and Pinhoe ...

P.S. I have awkward old bugger's card ... so I need to lather the "66% thereof rounded up to nearest 5p" on quoted prices. 

[grahame]

A further check ... Trowbridge is the same fares / structure as Westbury ... Melksham doesn't have a "via Yeovil" ticket to Pinhoe - just an "any permitted" so the cost would go up from £41.40 to £54 before senior discount, or from £33.40 to £56.30 if I went both ways via Yeovil.

I am likely to travel out from MKM^» (Melksham (Station code) - next trains) on the 06:38, back by train to TRO^» (Trowbridge - next trains) and then the bus as there's no suitable TransWilts train.  Need to check if there's a bus - "must attend" type meeting in the evening in Melksham - also lifts and £££ taxis in the possibles mix.

[grahame]

So glad I asked / checked here   

As a scientist I always like a 'control' to compare against, so I phoned National Rail's experts and asked for the cheapest way to do it.  Apparently an off peak single WSB^» (Westbury - next trains) to EXC at £31.30 + an anytime single EXC to YVJ at £19.10 and an anytime YVJ to WSB single at £22.30 - total price £72.50, assurance that it's the cheapest ticket combination valid  on that particular train combination. 

Advise to leave EXC 23 minutes later, change at EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) and get back to Westbury 63 minutes after the time the YVJ train arrives.   Which would mean missing my evening appointment!

[JayMac]

National Rail's experts

What are these mythical creatures you talk of? 

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

A couple of years ago (prior to the introduction of the yvj-yvp services) i was asked to assist with a fares matrix for the new services.

While i am unable to share that database here is a link to some proposed fares which i put together (most were never used and as this was a few years ago the prices are a little out)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tn0cYTjHxLqbTHawyCXqaAlnOzMf_PoQl3n-PyMpndg/edit?usp=sharing

Not sure if this will be of interest or not ... any feedback welcome 

[grahame]

Been raised further (on Monday) and chasing through the system