Lack of Welsh signage on IET fleet

[whole diary]

[Surrey 455]

A number of Welsh Politicians are unhappy that the new IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) trains have no bilingual signs. GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have responded that this is no different from the existing HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) fleet.

It's a very difficult article to cut and paste so here's a link

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/wont-any-welsh-language-signs-13814106

[John R]

There are no bilingual signs on the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) or any other stock that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) runs into Wales currently, so it isn't a step backwards. (Maybe a couple of units show Caerdydd Canolog on matrix destinations on the front, but I can't say I've seen those recently either.)

If they don't want the new trains I'm sure there are enough other lines they can be used on and South Wales passengers can change at Bristol instead. 

[JayMac]

These trains can change their source of energy for propulsion on the fly, so surely a simple software mod can be made to the displays so they go into bi-mode language as the trains leave England. The pre-recorded announcements could also be programmed to kick into bi-mode mid way through the Severn Tunnel. 

[John R]

Despite a huge effort and money being thrown at it over the last 40 years, the language is in decline, and that's from a relatively low base. I grew up in Cardiff and you only had to look at which way all the tv aerials in the street were pointed (to the Mendip, not Wenvoe, transmitter) to know what people wanted.

I wonder do airlines into Cardiff Airport have bilingual announcements or literature on board?

99% of customers of these trains in Wales will at worst not care a jot and more likely be pleased to have not to have the language rammed down their throat to pander for a very vociferous minority. 

[Chris from Nailsea]

Calon Lân, John R. 

[ellendune]

Calon Lân, John R. 

What's a pure heart got to do with it?

[Chris from Nailsea]

It's always sung in Welsh. 

Sorry, that was perhaps something of an 'in joke', posted here as I know John R personally.  He is a keen Wales rugby supporter. 

[chrisr_75]

Despite a huge effort and money being thrown at it over the last 40 years, the language is in decline, and that's from a relatively low base. I grew up in Cardiff and you only had to look at which way all the tv aerials in the street were pointed (to the Mendip, not Wenvoe, transmitter) to know what people wanted.

I wonder do airlines into Cardiff Airport have bilingual announcements or literature on board?

99% of customers of these trains in Wales will at worst not care a jot and more likely be pleased to have not to have the language rammed down their throat to pander for a very vociferous minority. 

Whist I agree with you with regards to South Wales (I would class this as the area south and east of the A465 road) where Welsh speaking is a minority activity, appearing to be favoured by a certain demographic trying to make a point (the Welsh they speak is also truly, truly weird). Take yourself off to Gwynedd or Anglesey, you'll find over 90% of residents speak first language Welsh, so dual language signage is arguably more significant up there. Similar levels of first language Welsh exist in many area of Powys, Ceredigion and north Pembrokeshire. It's not really a one size fits all concerning language in the little principality and there is still collective memory of a time when people were forced not to speak Welsh in schools, active anglicisation of place names and so on, which perhaps explains some of the sensitivity of this subject a little. But that digresses somewhat from the topic.

[WelshBluebird]

the language is in decline

Is it? Granted I don't live there anymore, but I was under the impression that thanks to it being pushed quite a lot in schools, the language is actually increasing in use from what it was, especially amongst younger people.

And then of course you have the other bits of Wales where Welsh is the main language (as mentioned by chrisr_75).

[John R]

the language is in decline

Is it? Granted I don't live there anymore, but I was under the impression that thanks to it being pushed quite a lot in schools, the language is actually increasing in use from what it was, especially amongst younger people.

And then of course you have the other bits of Wales where Welsh is the main language (as mentioned by chrisr_75).

Not at all. Despite all the money being thrown at it, it continues to decline as was very clear from the census. The results were accepted by all, even if the theories behind the decline differ.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-20701119

[John R]

Whist I agree with you with regards to South Wales (I would class this as the area south and east of the A465 road) where Welsh speaking is a minority activity, appearing to be favoured by a certain demographic trying to make a point (the Welsh they speak is also truly, truly weird). Take yourself off to Gwynedd or Anglesey, you'll find over 90% of residents speak first language Welsh, so dual language signage is arguably more significant up there. Similar levels of first language Welsh exist in many area of Powys, Ceredigion and north Pembrokeshire. It's not really a one size fits all concerning language in the little principality and there is still collective memory of a time when people were forced not to speak Welsh in schools, active anglicisation of place names and so on, which perhaps explains some of the sensitivity of this subject a little. But that digresses somewhat from the topic.

I would concur with these comments. In those areas where Welsh dominates it wouldn't be unreasonable to ask for bilingual signage.  But in South East Wales?  I am reminded of Switzerland where in German speaking parts of the country, there is no requirement to have French signage (and I presume vice versa).

[RobT]

If GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) name an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) set "Y Cymro / The Welshman" and add dragon decals, that will at least match the current Welshness of the HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) fleet.

[ChrisB]

I thought I had heard that the 800s weren't being named?

[Timmer]

I thought I had heard that the 800s weren't being named?

Queen Elizabeth
Queen Victoria

[Red Squirrel]

It seems very reasonable to insist that trains operating in Wales should have bilingual signage. It seems very unreasonable to suggest that any train that might operate in Wales should have bilingual signage. But if it's just a matter of configuring software based on route and location, then GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) should consider that.

The key to this is the word reasonable; if you're not careful you end up with the utter absurdity of utility companies putting up Welsh-first warning signs in Bristol. And that's not a joke, by the way; they do!