Abusive kids who won't buy tickets- what can be done?

[whole diary]

[Tim]

I'll leave the philosophising about what is wrong with (some of) our youth to others, but the staff on the train ought to be given all the support they need when they get problems from yobs. 

Noone, be they rail staff, coppers or ordinary members of the public ought to worry that legal action might be taken against them if they challenge illegal behaviour.   It is one thing saying that you can't thow under 18s off the train at an unstaffed station for not having a tciket, but once they are threatening or violent, they ought to forfit any protection from this policy.

the Police are never there when you need it so we need to live in a society where decent people feel that they can challenge bad behaviour. 

[zebedee]

I'll leave the philosophising about what is wrong with (some of) our youth to others, but the staff on the train ought to be given all the support they need when they get problems from yobs. 

Noone, be they rail staff, coppers or ordinary members of the public ought to worry that legal action might be taken against them if they challenge illegal behaviour.   It is one thing saying that you can't thow under 18s off the train at an unstaffed station for not having a tciket, but once they are threatening or violent, they ought to forfit any protection from this policy.

the Police are never there when you need it so we need to live in a society where decent people feel that they can challenge bad behaviour. 

Yes, we *should* be living in a society which challenges bad behaviour, but sadly, it's not the case.  People are frightened to get involved, frightened of legal action and of getting hurt (as the media make us believe that all youths carry knives).  I got attacked by three youths when I was a student many years ago on Plymouth Hoe during the DAY, did anyone help?   No.  People go to prison for hurting or defending themselves against criminals - so it comes back to the government to start moving away from crazy policies and actual base the legal system on common sense again.

[smokey]

It's more than time some of the Scum, and it's only a very small number of youths or even old gits who seem to think they are the centre of the universe were taught a short sharp shock.

Ok the first time someone gets in trouble let the Social Workers do their stuff, and try and sort them out,
Second time in trouble send them on National Service for two years, 12 months as cannon fodder in the Far  East would sort them out.

I know that the Police had problems with 2 young BRATS who were always in Trouble, almost to the point that they had there own seats in the Dock, but when they turned 16, both off 'em were sent inside (and off the streets) for 3 months.
Reported Crimes in the Town fell by 90%

Best cure I know off, Little ******* of 11, a real One boy crime wave, was out in the street about 1am, van pulls up 4 or 5 masked men took the Brat for a Ride, and gave him a warning ANYMORE trouble and YOU will just disappear never to be seem again.
That's a very fast cure!

[grahame]

I know that the majority of us have strong views which deplore the actions of a small minority of antisocial people - but don't let's watch our language and the words we choose.  After previous requests for clarification, I've put up a thread in the last couple of days which you might want to look over if you're not read it yet:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1920.0

[WashuChan]

Best cure I know off, Little ******* of 11, a real One boy crime wave, was out in the street about 1am, van pulls up 4 or 5 masked men took the Brat for a Ride, and gave him a warning ANYMORE trouble and YOU will just disappear never to be seem again.
That's a very fast cure!

While I don't agree with the method, the result was a good one. It's a shame that children are allowed to grow up into the yobs/thugs/people who seem to think for only themselves and not about the results of their actions on others. Those of that mindset are a dieing breed in today's society and it's a damned shame. I truely hope we re-think some of things within our justice system, our police force and some of the stupid EU^» (European Union - about) laws that we're forced to follow.

[zebedee]

You are totally right, Britain is now a very insular place - and it's a sad spiral.  Most people seem to be only out for themselves and I am so fed up with my neighbours doing stuff that directly effects us without thinking to ask or mention anything (noisy parrots right next to our house, trampolines that overlook our garden, inconsiderate parking...) that I am slowly turning into them.

In my experience, the police are ineffective - we have a nightmare family near us, moved to Newton Abbot from Torquay because they caused too many problems there.  The young lad got a mini motorbike and started driving it up and down the pavements outside our house (at about 30 mph).  Stupidly dangerous and a serious threat to my family and anyone else using the pavement.  I phoned the police and was told that they were "dealing with it" - I pointed out that they should remove the bike before someone gets mowed down but was told again "we are dealing with it".  Several weeks passed and nothing happened (I even filmed the kid whizzing passed us on his bike but the police weren't interested), in the end one of the other neighbours got so fed up with it he went round and smashed the bike to pieces.  Problem solved, unfortunately, now he's up in court - personally, I think he should have been given a ^100 as a "citizen reward".

I come back to my original point, the authorities say they want normal people to help police our streets but there's no incentive and people are unsure of where they stand and have little faith in the police to back them up anymore.  You only had to watch the news last night to here the latest on the lad who was killed by two yobs when he confronted them after they threw rubbish into his car.

[WashuChan]

I come back to my original point, the authorities say they want normal people to help police our streets but there's no incentive and people are unsure of where they stand and have little faith in the police to back them up anymore.  You only had to watch the news last night to here the latest on the lad who was killed by two yobs when he confronted them after they threw rubbish into his car.

There is no fear of the police force, I was nearly killed for my mobile phone by a lad no older then myself at the time, I managed to get away and still with my mobile phone but was so shaken up that I collapsed in the police station. He got 13 months for attempted robbery with a dangerous weapon and two further counts of robbery of others he had done it to.

He got out 6 months later, on the same day as my birthday. I have a lot less faith in the justice and police system since.

[zebedee]

I am sorry to hear that story, I know what it's like to be set on and it's deeply unpleasant and un-nerving and I'm also disgusted to hear that they got out early, I never understand that - sorry, you get 13 months, you do 13 months.  Prison shouldn't be easy - it should be horrible.  It's punishement.  If you hurt someone, or kill someone or rape someone, you give up your human rights as you were quick enough to take them from someone else.  I have very strong views on this, and they are mostly generated by my despair at the direction our society is going in.

[WashuChan]

I am sorry to hear that story, I know what it's like to be set on and it's deeply unpleasant and un-nerving and I'm also disgusted to hear that they got out early, I never understand that - sorry, you get 13 months, you do 13 months.  Prison shouldn't be easy - it should be horrible.  It's punishement.  If you hurt someone, or kill someone or rape someone, you give up your human rights as you were quick enough to take them from someone else.  I have very strong views on this, and they are mostly generated by my despair at the direction our society is going in.

Whats even more disgusting is that they "demand" access to the Internet, Colour TV's etc. I'm all for prison reform, but when you break the law, you loose the right to the nice things in life while your inside. Once your out, you make amends and you sort it out. Heck inside if you haven't any qualifications, they can help you get useful skills on the outside. I've a friend who's a reformed prisoneer and he says it was the best thing that happened to him, he now runs his own business in plumbing up in my old stomping grounds.

But back to the main point, we need more guards, more security and better protection for users of the transport network and the employees on it. The abuse of any of them has to be stopped.

[vacman]

I come back to my original point, the authorities say they want normal people to help police our streets but there's no incentive and people are unsure of where they stand and have little faith in the police to back them up anymore.  You only had to watch the news last night to here the latest on the lad who was killed by two yobs when he confronted them after they threw rubbish into his car.

There is no fear of the police force, I was nearly killed for my mobile phone by a lad no older then myself at the time, I managed to get away and still with my mobile phone but was so shaken up that I collapsed in the police station. He got 13 months for attempted robbery with a dangerous weapon and two further counts of robbery of others he had done it to.

He got out 6 months later, on the same day as my birthday. I have a lot less faith in the justice and police system since.

I don't blame the police, I think their hands are tied, it's the muppets in government!

[Tim]

This might be one solution

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7266624.stm

[Lee]

This might be one solution

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7266624.stm

Background link.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1690.msg11404#msg11404

[Graz]

Hee hee, yes I read that just now and this sprung to mind right away