IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

Regarding the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) requirement for a train manager in each portion of a 5+5 IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train), I am wondering if this might sway the  financial argument in favour of lengthening some 5 car units to 9 car.

On first sight, it would seem that a train managers salary is a lot less than the cost of leasing a longer train. But this does not tell the whole story.
The train managers annual working hours are a lot less than the hours for which the train works.
Presuming that a train manager has 5 weeks holiday a year, and 1 week sick leave, and an average of 1 weeks training, that leaves 45 weeks work. presuming an average 40 hour week, of which only 20 hours is productive, it would seem to me that the train manager would only achieve about 900 productive hours a year, 1,000 hours if being optimistic.

There are 8,760 hours in a year, and the intensively used trains might be in service for 5,000 hours a year. So lengthening a 5 car unit to 9 car, is potentially saving 5 or even 6 train managers salaries, and not a single salary as might be initially supposed.

Lengthening some 5 car units to 9 car would not of course double the leasing costs since the extra vehicles should be cheaper, and 4 extras are required, not 5.
Reliability should increase since coupling and uncoupling seems to cause some of the failures.

[devonexpress]

Regarding the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) requirement for a train manager in each portion of a 5+5 IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train), I am wondering if this might sway the  financial argument in favour of lengthening some 5 car units to 9 car.

On first sight, it would seem that a train managers salary is a lot less than the cost of leasing a longer train. But this does not tell the whole story.
The train managers annual working hours are a lot less than the hours for which the train works.
Presuming that a train manager has 5 weeks holiday a year, and 1 week sick leave, and an average of 1 weeks training, that leaves 45 weeks work. presuming an average 40 hour week, of which only 20 hours is productive, it would seem to me that the train manager would only achieve about 900 productive hours a year, 1,000 hours if being optimistic.

There are 8,760 hours in a year, and the intensively used trains might be in service for 5,000 hours a year. So lengthening a 5 car unit to 9 car, is potentially saving 5 or even 6 train managers salaries, and not a single salary as might be initially supposed.

Lengthening some 5 car units to 9 car would not of course double the leasing costs since the extra vehicles should be cheaper, and 4 extras are required, not 5.
Reliability should increase since coupling and uncoupling seems to cause some of the failures.

You may be right Broadgauge, but knowing the railways, it will take them 10 years to work that out, by which time the design will be out of date and it would be too costly to manufacturer new coaching stock. However, there is also the question of if the remaining electrification ever gets done, what happens to the extra trains ordered due to the delay?

[broadgage]

The extra trains would still be useful in the event of electrification, they could either be cascaded to areas not yet electrified, or simply have the engines removed use on the present routes.

That however still leaves the risk that by the time lengthening is authorised, that the design will be obsolete!
Remember the Pendolinos ? intended to be easily extended but this turned out to be hugely costly and complex when eventually done.

[broadgage]

IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) availability looks worse than usual today.
Over 30 half length services, many in the rush hours.

As well as these 30+ half length IETs there are numerous other, less serious short formations suggesting availability is worse than the "new normal".

8 car instead of 9 or 10 car, not a great problem in itself as an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) is  what was expected until recently.
9 car instead of 10 car, virtually the same capacity, but does suggest lack of 5 car units.
5 car instead of 8 car.
7 car instead of 9 or 10 car.
These are less serious than the half capacity trains, but still a poor showing, and presumably mean no rservations, and probably no catering.

[Thatcham Crossing]

I passed North Pole at around 1020 this morning inbound to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), and having only now read the above would say that there were at least 15 and possibly up to 20 IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) of various flavours parked at various places (inside and outside) around the depot at that time.

I'm not going to speculate (as that's all it would be) but the previous post suggests that at least some of those could have otherwise been in useful service?

[lbraine]

So I pinged @gwrhelp the direct question asking why so many 10 car sets running with 5 cars out of use. The reply was ‘sets are running this way due to a fault on the second set’.

Sounds like the Class 800 don’t play nice together.

[IndustryInsider]

I passed North Pole at around 1020 this morning inbound to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), and having only now read the above would say that there were at least 15 and possibly up to 20 IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) of various flavours parked at various places (inside and outside) around the depot at that time.

I'm not going to speculate (as that's all it would be) but the previous post suggests that at least some of those could have otherwise been in useful service?

Some of those will be 800 and 802 units yet to be accepted into traffic (especially the 9-car ones), some will have been in use earlier or later in the day, and (no doubt) a few would have been in service had there not been issues with them.  The exact split of those three different categories would be interesting to know.

[grahame]

I passed North Pole at around 1020 this morning inbound to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), and having only now read the above would say that there were at least 15 and possibly up to 20 IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) of various flavours parked at various places (inside and outside) around the depot at that time.

I'm not going to speculate (as that's all it would be) but the previous post suggests that at least some of those could have otherwise been in useful service?

Some of those will be 800 and 802 units yet to be accepted into traffic (especially the 9-car ones), some will have been in use earlier or later in the day, and (no doubt) a few would have been in service had there not been issues with them.  The exact split of those three different categories would be interesting to know.

Looking out on the other side of my train in the Old Oak area, there also seemed to be an awful lot of TfL^» (Transport for London - about) trains parked up in the sidings. Not so much a shortage of trains, more a shortage of trains in use ... and I do understand that there are probably good reasons for lots of trains being OOU^▸ (out of use) around OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)).

I wonder what the split across the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) is on ...

Carriages in daily use
Carriages parked up during the day but in nightly use
Carriages awaiting short term repair
Carriages undergoing short term repair
Carriages awaiting long term repair / conversion
Carriages undergoing long term repair / conversion
Carriages in use for testing
Carriages in use for crew training
Carriages held back to stand in for failures or unexpected loading
Carriages useable, off contract and awaiting new long term roles
Carriages off contract and awaiting new long term roles that would need work
Carriages available for spot hire
Carriages on the tracks in the UK but not yet accepted into service

[Timmer]

I just hope that if there a 9 car sets parked up waiting to accepted into traffic, that every effort is being made to get them in service ASAP. This daily long list of running of 5 vice 8/10 really is unacceptable.

[TaplowGreen]

I just hope that if there a 9 car sets parked up waiting to accepted into traffic, that every effort is being made to get them in service ASAP. This daily long list of running of 5 vice 8/10 really is unacceptable.

Indeed - a long list which seems to be sustained or get worse every day. A year after the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) came into service, we should be able to expect much better.

[Timmer]

Indeed - a long list which seems to be sustained or get worse every day. A year after the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) came into service, we should be able to expect much better.

The decision to manufacture the 5 car sets and not the 9 car sets first and being unable to reverse the decision was just plain wrong. Its once again the passengers who suffer the rail industrie's incompetence.

[Thatcham Crossing]

Looking out on the other side of my train in the Old Oak area, there also seemed to be an awful lot of TfL^» (Transport for London - about) trains parked up in the sidings

Yep, I noticed that yesterday also. A nice formation line-up of maybe a dozen 345's.

[old original]

One improvement over the last couple of months is a reduction in the number of 10-Cars running with 5 locked out of use - I haven’t seen one in ages.  Some might suggest that’s because of the large number of 5-car short forms, but it is nonetheless an improvement.

Or maybe because they've had the chance to train up more staff onto the Class 800/802s? The problem was down to the Dft rushing the 800s into service and giving limited time for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to train all its staff. Whilst we now have all the 800 5 car units in service I believe they are still undergoing modification/update work, as I predicted would happen with them effectively being a brand new entire model.  We are still have a limited amount of 9 car 800s running, and only 4 (5 car) Class 802s in service which means juggling the fleet around like they did with the HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s is currently difficult. 

Also a quick question, as I presume its possible for the 800 and 802s to couple up, are they allowed to work a public service together, and since the 800s are banned for taking the public past Newton Abbot to Plymouth, if one was a 800s and the other was an 802s, would it still be banned?

A 5 car 800  (800 012) was out on it's own on the 0730 from Paddington to Penzance & back yesterday (Tuesday 4th)...

[devonexpress]

One improvement over the last couple of months is a reduction in the number of 10-Cars running with 5 locked out of use - I haven’t seen one in ages.  Some might suggest that’s because of the large number of 5-car short forms, but it is nonetheless an improvement.

Or maybe because they've had the chance to train up more staff onto the Class 800/802s? The problem was down to the Dft rushing the 800s into service and giving limited time for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to train all its staff. Whilst we now have all the 800 5 car units in service I believe they are still undergoing modification/update work, as I predicted would happen with them effectively being a brand new entire model.  We are still have a limited amount of 9 car 800s running, and only 4 (5 car) Class 802s in service which means juggling the fleet around like they did with the HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s is currently difficult. 

Also a quick question, as I presume its possible for the 800 and 802s to couple up, are they allowed to work a public service together, and since the 800s are banned for taking the public past Newton Abbot to Plymouth, if one was a 800s and the other was an 802s, would it still be banned?

A 5 car 800  (800 012) was out on it's own on the 0730 from Paddington to Penzance & back yesterday (Tuesday 4th)...

Where was the 802s?   I know the 800s are having issues because Hitachi are more interested in having the train perfect than it actually running a service, the main problem with having the manufacturer as the leasing and maintenance company to the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company).  Im surprised no HST was put on the service instead, unless we no longer have enough to cover for this kind of thing.

[old original]

I also noticed the paint is already looking scrappy. Very dull and scratched and that's only after a few months