IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

Taking vehicles from locked out of use 5 car units and adding them to operational units, so as to make them longer than 5 car, sounds tempting but I suspect that it would be fraught with problems and hugely expensive.
These DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) are fantastically complicated and I strongly suspect that vehicles removed from a certain 5 car set, can only be used as spares to replace failed vehicles in the same position in ANOTHER 5 car set,
I bet that some subtle difference prohibits them being used to lengthen a 5 car set to something longer.

It would probably be cheaper and quicker to either defeat the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers), or to admit defeat and employ more union members.

[Thatcham Crossing]

Sad thing for me is that the travelling public will largely blame the new technology for these problems (50% of trains locked OOU^▸ (out of use) etc) when it's all down to a good old-fashioned (and I mean old-fashioned) industrial dispute 

[martyjon]

Sad thing for me is that the travelling public will largely blame the new technology for these problems (50% of trains locked OOU^▸ (out of use) etc) when it's all down to a good old-fashioned (and I mean old-fashioned) industrial dispute 

Really !

Isn't it also down to the fact that 5-car units were procured instead of 9-car units. In the event that an emergency alarm is activated by a passenger in the 5-car set NOT occupied by a competent member of staff, the sole competent member of staff other than the driver would have to detrain and walk to the other set and make an entrance there to investigate the emergency leaving the driver to do his duty to prep the train for moving on when it is safe/cleared to do so.

[grahame]

Isn't it also down to the fact that 5-car units were procured instead of 9-car units. ...

The overall fleet will be a mixture of 5 and 9 car units - designed as such so that a mixture can be used getting the right length trains on the right service.   However, just about all the 5 car 800s were delivered before any 9 cars arrived, resulting in 5+5 trains being run where 9 cars will become the norm, with the temporary extra crew issues.

[martyjon]

Isn't it also down to the fact that 5-car units were procured instead of 9-car units. ...

The overall fleet will be a mixture of 5 and 9 car units - designed as such so that a mixture can be used getting the right length trains on the right service.   However, just about all the 5 car 800s were delivered before any 9 cars arrived, resulting in 5+5 trains being run where 9 cars will become the norm, with the temporary extra crew issues.

And promises have been made in the past for the future and when the future came to pass where were those promises ?

[broadgage]

Sad thing for me is that the travelling public will largely blame the new technology for these problems (50% of trains locked OOU^▸ (out of use) etc) when it's all down to a good old-fashioned (and I mean old-fashioned) industrial dispute 

I blame the problems on the ordering of a fleet of mainly 5 car DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) for so called inter city services.
The order should have been mainly 9 car with perhaps a limited number of short units for lightly used services.

Some naysayers like me predicted that short formations would be a regular event as has happened.
Whilst the obstructive attitude of the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) has not helped (other multiple units run without a union member in each portion), a lot of the short formations yesterday and today, have been due to train faults and not RMT demands.

[grahame]

And promises have been made in the past for the future and when the future came to pass where were those promises ?

Can't deny that.  However, with 9 cars starting to arrive and being in the production pipeline, I think this is something that will is happening.  Later than intended, maybe ...

[didcotdean]

Isn't it also down to the fact that 5-car units were procured instead of 9-car units. ...

The overall fleet will be a mixture of 5 and 9 car units - designed as such so that a mixture can be used getting the right length trains on the right service.   However, just about all the 5 car 800s were delivered before any 9 cars arrived, resulting in 5+5 trains being run where 9 cars will become the norm, with the temporary extra crew issues.

Plus the other oddity that services where a single 5 car might be the long term intention currently have 9 cars. After being used to a settled pattern of deployment for some years we now have almost daily juggling round availbility of train sets and corresponding drivers and other staff.

Single 5 car units are also needed for the vanity non (or few) stop services that haven't started up yet

[Timmer]

Single 5 car units are also needed for the vanity non (or few) stop services that haven't started up yet

Glad its not just me who thinks that.

[Thatcham Crossing]

Can't deny that.  However, with 9 cars starting to arrive and being in the production pipeline, I think this is something that will is happening.  Later than intended, maybe ...

Amen to that, I think (hope) we can all agree that a lot of these issues (be they due to technical, staff resourcing or industrial relations issues) could have been avoided if more 9-car units had been deployed earlier.

Once they are (on the routes where they are needed, and 5+5's have become the norm up to now), one hopes that the public perception will start to improve, where it needs to.

[eXPassenger]

Can't deny that.  However, with 9 cars starting to arrive and being in the production pipeline, I think this is something that will is happening.  Later than intended, maybe ...

Amen to that, I think (hope) we can all agree that a lot of these issues (be they due to technical, staff resourcing or industrial relations issues) could have been avoided if more 9-car units had been deployed earlier.

Once they are (on the routes where they are needed, and 5+5's have become the norm up to now), one hopes that the public perception will start to improve, where it needs to.

The 9-car units were due for earlier delivery but they were all-electric 801s and only Cardiff will be fully electrified, so they had to be modified to 800s with diesel engines.  If only Network Rail had electrified the whole line to the original timetable.

[stuving]

The 9-car units were due for earlier delivery but they were all-electric 801s and only Cardiff will be fully electrified, so they had to be modified to 800s with diesel engines.  If only Network Rail had electrified the whole line to the original timetable.

I have no idea where this bit of reverse engineered history came from, but it's not true. The order with all the 5-car trains (800s) first and then 9-car (originally electric 801) trains was in the original agreements with Hitachi/Agility and the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) franchise. They are just all turning up about 3 months late, that's all.

[Bmblbzzz]

So following the last few posts I'm unsure of this: When and if all the 9-cars have been delivered, are the 2x5s to continue running as 2x5 or are they to be split into two separate 5-car trains?

[broadgage]

AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know), the intention is to run many services as 5+5 car from London to Plymouth* with a single 5 car unit going forward.
The intention is that all busy services will be full length, with relatively small numbers of lightly used services being 5 car throughout.

However my natural cynicism leads me to suspect that many services planned as 5+5 for the busy part of the route, will in fact be 5 car throughout.
I also suspect that some busy services that should be 9 car or 5+5 will end up being 5 car.

Many recent short formations have been due to train faults, and whilst the delivery of the 9 car sets will help some routes or services, if the 5 car units do not improve then the problem is only transferred to whatever route or service that the 5 car units are used on.

*Or a suitable point on another route.

[grahame]

So following the last few posts I'm unsure of this: When and if all the 9-cars have been delivered, are the 2x5s to continue running as 2x5 or are they to be split into two separate 5-car trains?

You will see some 5+5 trains and some 9 trains.  Until recently, you only saw 5+5 and they were in use on some that will continue to be 5+5 and some that will become 9.   The 5+5 s will be able to split along the way, so you'll continue to see them on London to Carmarthen and London to Weston / Taunton, with 5 cars only west of Swansea / Bristol.

I'm trying to recall the exact text, but I think it was "no 5 car trains out of Paddington in the peak hour - they will all be 9 or 10". That may have been before Bedwyn was going IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) ... or perhaps the plan is to split Cheltenham and Bedwyn sections at Reading?