IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues

[whole diary]

[stuving]

Will Hitachi be financially liable for the failures due to overheating ? Or is there some wiggle room ?

I suppose Hitachi could argue that they were designed to run under the wires for most of their journeys and not so extensively on diesel.

Wasn't the Hitachi/DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) contract re-negotiated to cover all the extra diesel mileage/engines?  Wheres STUVING when you need him?....

In this case I don't know, indeed I was going to ask about this very point only last week when IndustryInsider said this:

It would indeed be unusual to withdraw one from service because one of the engines was out.  I have seen several running in service with one engine out before, and as Broadgage says power output increases in the remaining engines.

That's not true unless the power is limited to below 700 kW. But I have seen very confident assertions, by reporters who look like they should be believed, that the original restriction had been lifted. So, does anyone know for certain sure?

[broadgage]

15 half length IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) today, so far.
This might suggest that something more than cleaning radiators is required since that should have been possible overnight.
It does sound like a poor design if the radiators cant be easily inspected and cleaned.

Very negative report yesterday evening on the TV news regarding the state of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) services. Poor quality reporting that did not differentiate between new shorter trains, high track temperatures, and signal failures.

[TaplowGreen]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-44629151?__twitter_impression=true

Rather embarrassing. I note the message on Journeycheck has been hastily amended with the word "critical" excised!

[a-driver]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-44629151?__twitter_impression=true

Rather embarrassing. I note the message on Journeycheck has been hastily amended with the word "critical" excised!

All this points to is the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) trying to run franchises with the bare minimum number of trains to cover a weekday timetable to suit the accountants. It hasn’t worked for the passenger in the past, it doesn’t work now and it won’t work in the future.

[IndustryInsider]

I guess GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) would describe it internally as 'critical' whenever the booked number of diagrams can't be covered with stock available, so I could see why that wording would be used as the train plan can't be delivered fully.  To the casual observer the word critical might imply that there were hardly any trains available at all, so I can see why such wording has been jumped on by the press.

Of course the train plan hasn't been covered properly for on days recently, so the phrase critical loses its meaning somewhat anyway, but there should of course be enough trains to cover all the daily diagrams with allowances for routine maintenance and last minute failures.

Regarding IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) shortages today, it looks like there are just three diagrams running around short which has been pretty common recently with the additional units out on training runs.  One of the diagrams is showing 5 cars instead of 8, so it looks like an IET is being used to cover a shortage of HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s, and that would leave another IET diagram short of course.  I would not think this is therefore down to any radiator cleaning problems particularly.

[broadgage]

And whom predicted that "single 5 car operation will be a regular feature, as with Voyagers" Advocates of the new units pointed to various facts, figures, forecasts, and projections, to show that all busy services would be full length.

I simply looked at previous generations of new trains, and forecast that these would be similar. We have now had a few months of regular short formations.

Many reports/complaints also refer to the air conditioning not working properly, or at all. I also predicted that it would not cope with a crush loaded train and 40 degrees outside air. Advocates of the new fun sized trains suggested that coping with 40 degrees outside air was needless because it wont that hot.
40 degrees is indeed well in excess of that ever recorded by the Met office at an official met office weather station.
I suspect that 40 degrees IS BEING reached at engine height, in bright sun, and with another train adjacent.

[a-driver]

And whom predicted that "single 5 car operation will be a regular feature, as with Voyagers" Advocates of the new units pointed to various facts, figures, forecasts, and projections, to show that all busy services would be full length.

I simply looked at previous generations of new trains, and forecast that these would be similar. We have now had a few months of regular short formations.

Many reports/complaints also refer to the air conditioning not working properly, or at all. I also predicted that it would not cope with a crush loaded train and 40 degrees outside air. Advocates of the new fun sized trains suggested that coping with 40 degrees outside air was needless because it wont that hot.
40 degrees is indeed well in excess of that ever recorded by the Met office at an official met office weather station.
I suspect that 40 degrees IS BEING reached at engine height, in bright sun, and with another train adjacent.

I’ve heard that the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)’s that failed due to overheating had engine temperatures running in excess of 110°c

[broadgage]

Overbeating indeed since when did beating a DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) help ? It might urge a horse to greater efforts, but is cruel and should not be contemplated.

More seriously, 110 degrees sounds rather high, but I don't know what the normal operating temperature is, nor the limiting temperature if different.

Large MTU^▸ (Motor Traction Unit) diesels with which I am familiar had a thermostatic cooling fan that was controlled to keep the engine coolant at about 85 degrees if possible. It could go higher in hot weather and at full load.
The temperature warning light came on at 95 degrees, and the engine tripped at 105 degrees.
This was for electric power generation, not traction.

[IndustryInsider]

I could understand all these comments if IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)'s were failing all over the place, but they're not.  I can understand Broadgage clambering on-board any issues to try and prove his theories and agree with him that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have handled the introduction of the trains poorly, but given the amount of new technology in the trains themselves, I think they're doing pretty well.  Not perfect, as the overheating engine issue earlier in the week proved, but pretty well.  Even that issue seems to have been resolved with a pretty simple change to maintenance inspections.

[PhilWakely]

I could understand all these comments if IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)'s were failing all over the place, but they're not.  I can understand Broadgage clambering on-board any issues to try and prove his theories and agree with him that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have handled the introduction of the trains poorly, but given the amount of new technology in the trains themselves, I think they're doing pretty well.  Not perfect, as the overheating engine issue earlier in the week proved, but pretty well.  Even that issue seems to have been resolved with a pretty simple change to maintenance inspections.

I remember 1976 and the introduction of the new InterCity 125 trains. They had their fair share of teething problems. The only differences between then and now were that the failures were easier to fix; more bods available to do the fixing; and plenty of spare loco-hauled rolling stock to cover for the failures.

[TaplowGreen]

I could understand all these comments if IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)'s were failing all over the place, but they're not.  I can understand Broadgage clambering on-board any issues to try and prove his theories and agree with him that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have handled the introduction of the trains poorly, but given the amount of new technology in the trains themselves, I think they're doing pretty well.  Not perfect, as the overheating engine issue earlier in the week proved, but pretty well.  Even that issue seems to have been resolved with a pretty simple change to maintenance inspections.

GWR however have an unfortunate twin track - an MD who lacks the courage and integrity to stand up, admit his failures, apologise, given an honest account of the problems, articulate lessons learned and the road/timeline to recovery (even the despicable O'Leary of Ryanair held his hands up eventually),  combined with an infantile PR^▸ (Public Relations)/Marketing department, apparently headed by Comical Ali, who promote twee rubbish like the Famous Five Campaign whilst all around is disintegrating.


Until the organisation has the culture and ability to communicate with its customers honestly and effectively, forget any improvement in public perception or image. The (well founded) cynicism will only get worse.

[a-driver]

Overbeating indeed since when did beating a DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) help ? It might urge a horse to greater efforts, but is cruel and should not be contemplated.

Unfortunately the letter ‘h’ buckled in the severe heat and ended up as a ‘b’.  

I don’t think the introduction has been handled badly by GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), I just think you’re going to get more issues when you’re forced to rapidly introduce new trains as opposed to the planned phased introduction.

[IndustryInsider]

I remember 1976 and the introduction of the new InterCity 125 trains. They had their fair share of teething problems. The only differences between then and now were that the failures were easier to fix; more bods available to do the fixing; and plenty of spare loco-hauled rolling stock to cover for the failures.

The other difference is that Internet forums weren’t quite so well established in 1976...

[grahame]

I don’t think the introduction has been handled badly by GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), I just think you’re going to get more issues when you’re forced to rapidly introduce new trains as opposed to the planned phased introduction.

First new train 16th October 2017 with a couple of diagrams, further diagrams every few weeks.  Firstly South Wales and Bristol turns, then some extensions to Taunton an Carmarthen.  Followed by north and south Cotswolds.   Hereford services to come, and next month there's a start made on the South West services.   Initially 5 car trains were introduced; now 9 car ones are coming on tap too.   Looks very much like a planned phased introduction to me!

[CMRail]

It annoys me when people moan about these trains. They were designed how they were ordered, yes the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) has reached 6mph more, as much as it’s lifechanging, we are not going to be seeing 150mph line speeds anytime soon. Are the HSTs practical for th next decade? I think not.

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) could have used conmon sense for this but hopefully it will be sorted.