Shortage of rolling stock since September 2017 - ongoing problems, and subsequent discussion

[whole diary]

[a-driver]

It was the power cars damaged in the derailment and the exhaust fire incidents. They can just be removed and replaced with a spare power car. The whole set isn’t out of traffic. In fact, the derailed power car was returned to service within a few days.
There is a shortage of power cars though and there have been issues with some of the externally overhauled components which isn’t helping plus one with fatality damage.

[paul7575]

Quite possibly need to put the seating back into original layout, and yes, the buffets may need to go - all depends on what was agreed with the lessor at the time. Certainly the vinyls/paint needs doing too

I once heard of an EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) subclass (313s maybe on LO for the early period before replacement) having some seats removed from a 2+3 layout temporarily to give more access space, and they were replaced when the units went off lease, but I just cannot believe that there will be a need to re-instate these HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) carriages to their previous interior layout.   The aim of the changes was to increase the overall seating capacity of the train, why would that ever need to be removed?

I'm sure Scotrail have plans for completely revised interiors (at least as seen in their PR^▸ (Public Relations)) but cannot see it being necessary to have a transitional stage back to prior layout.

There's an analogy with the 442s.  They are Mk 3 coaches that left SWT^▸ (South West Trains) a few years ago in almost as built condition, and then were totally altered internally for use by Southern and GatEx. If there was a general requirement to revert them to the condition as delivered to the last user, why haven't they had to be 'de-converted' prior to their recent storage off lease?

Paul

[bobm]

I don't think GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have to do too much to the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) before sending them north.

It was reported elsewhere on the forum that the first set did its final diagram to Paignton, headed to Laira and was then on its way to Scotland within a few days.

[grahame]

I'm sure Scotrail have plans for completely revised interiors (at least as seen in their PR^▸ (Public Relations)) but cannot see it being necessary to have a transitional stage back to prior layout.

"May we change the trains we're leasing from you" .... possible answers

1. No
2. Yes, but you need to put them back as you got them from us when you return them
3. Yes, and we like the changes - they make the trains more modern / valuable to us in the future
4. Yes, and we reserve the right to ask you to return them to "as leased" at the end of the contact

I suspect that all four answers have been used at times, and written into contracts

[a-driver]

I don't think GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have to do too much to the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) before sending them north.

It was reported elsewhere on the forum that the first set did its final diagram to Paignton, headed to Laira and was then on its way to Scotland within a few days.

There was a lot of work that was carried out on the sets before its final diagram.  The set was stopped quite a few times.  The leasing company go over the set with a fine tooth comb, listing things such as a chipped armrest before it leaves Laira!

[phile]

Just wondering if the last few posts have got to do with Traincrew Shortages.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Fair comment, phile - I'll sort that out in a few minutes (I'm dealing with something else at the moment!) 

[ray951]

There seems to be a shortage of stock this morning:

I have seen 4 trains that normally run as 3 carriages running as 2 carriages today (0728 BAN - PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), 0657 PAD- OXF^» (Oxford - next trains), 0834 DID^▸ (Didcot Parkway) - PAD., 0721 PAD-OXF(?)) and a train that is normally class 180 (0807 Oxford - PAD) was a 5 car 165/166.

[ChrisB]

All the 180s have gone back, haven't they?

[IndustryInsider]

All the 180s have gone back, haven't they?

No, we still have four left until December.

[stuving]

All the 180s have gone back, haven't they?

No, we still have four left until December.

The franchise contract said:

Four of the Class 180 units (20 vehicles) will be subject to a sub-lease arrangement from Grand Central after the lease expiry date shown pending withdrawal from service linked to the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) stock delivery.

But the timing of that withdrawal, and what "delivery" really means, raises a few questions (as I posted on the IEP thread last night). And the Wikipedia page on 180s says one of those four units went back in May, and even names it as 180108.

Presumably all the stock to be returned when 80xs replace them, under a lease, sublease, loan, or whatever, can only be kept longer by mutual agreement. If they would just go into sidings pending re-lease, there should be no problem with going back and saying "please sir can I have some  more time?". Once a new operator has been lined up, then surely there is a cut-off point after which that's not possible, even with the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)'s heavies behind you.

That seems to be where GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) find themselves, with what was to be little or no gap (between the last agreed withdrawal date for the first stock to go back and the 800s actually running) has opened up to several weeks. And by this late stage all they can do is try to cope, hoping the bright new dawn of sun-dappled pastures and gambolling fluffy 800s is not delayed even more.

I have a mental image of GWR (and DfT as well) huddled down behind a big wardrobe pulled across the door, with pillows over their heads, waiting for the screaming and shouting to die down. "It's not long now, and there's nothing we can do, so just keep quiet and pretend we're not here".

Which looks like a sort of survival strategy. Except ... why on Earth would you launch any kind of marketing campaign now, rather than more logically after your new trains are running about and it's safe to open the door again?

[JayMac]

I've had a similar mental image.

Mark Hopwood with his fingers in his ears going, "La la la la la la la..." for the past few months.

[IndustryInsider]

There seems to be a shortage of stock this morning:

I have seen 4 trains that normally run as 3 carriages running as 2 carriages today (0728 BAN - PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), 0657 PAD- OXF^» (Oxford - next trains), 0834 DID^▸ (Didcot Parkway) - PAD., 0721 PAD-OXF(?)) and a train that is normally class 180 (0807 Oxford - PAD) was a 5 car 165/166.

The 08:34 DID-PAD is booked a 2-car as far as Reading, and a 5-car from there.  That's what it was this morning.

[Timmer]

why on Earth would you launch any kind of marketing campaign now, rather than more logically after your new trains are running about and it's safe to open the door again?

Which is what we've been saying in other threads. It makes no sense except if you had booked the marketing agency long ago to launch the campaign at this time with the expectation that IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) would be operating by now. Even then these things can be postponed.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Accepting the inevitable, I have now expanded the heading of this topic to include October.