Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[a-driver]

I would hope that in 20 years time many / most of the train crew for who Sunday is not part of the working week and choose not to work overtime on this day will have either been offered an incentive to change their contract or will have retired and been replaced with new drivers whose shifts include Sundays.

I would also hope that not being able to drive certain routes because you haven't signed that route will be a thing of the past thanks to a rail equivalent of GPS which would notify you in advance of where the signals are, when to start braking for the next station etc.

It's Friday night, end of the working week...... someone has been on the sauce! 

[TaplowGreen]

No end to this shambles in sight, an embarrassment to all concerned.

Lock those who are responsible, necessary and capable of resolving it in a room, and don't let them out until they come up with a solution.

Purely as a matter of interest - as a very vocal critic, if you had the power, how would YOU resolve it?

Well, on the basis that I couldn't do much worse than Haigh I'd start from a premise setting out that the railway is a 7 day operation and that resources must match that principle - if it involves recruiting more staff alongside amending existing contracts to get Sunday in the working week, get it costed and a framework with this and timings set out, agreed and published - look for opportunities to offset what will no doubt be an expensive enterprise through savings elsewhere away from traincrew.

In the interim, look for a temporary fix and/or put a timetable in place that is workable, reliable and realistic - not this weekly weekend meltdown with the ludicrous, scarcely credible situation that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are effectively telling the public not to use their services every Sunday.

Overall, (and this is key and runs through everything) reposition the railway as an organisation whose purpose is to serve its customers and reflect their changing needs - acknowledge that it needs major change to achieve this - all staff and leaders need to buy into this - it is decades behind in this respect and that culture is partly the reason where we find ourselves where we are - it is the hardest thing to change in any organisation and probably needs new leadership from outside the industry with new ideas, not just relying on the usual re-treads - this will go to issues such changing and simplifying the fare structures, challenging inefficiency, closing ticket offices/making tickets available elsewhere, and providing more visible, responsive and accessible customer service etc.

...........away you go! 

[UstiImmigrunt]

Unfortunately mission impossible.

So if everyone is put on the compulsory overtime on a Sunday contract you'll have staff going sick for several days to get a Sunday off. There are some staff on this contract who are Sunday exempt.

To put Sundays inside the working week requires an extra 17% staff. Then take into account retirement, promotion to management, disciplinary demotion, medical restrictions and sackings you are always playing catch up. It'll never happen.

Don't forget the morale levels as well.

Never mind.

Up to Covid I worked 40+ Sundays a year. But then my mortgage finished and personal circumstances changed. I probably worked less than 50 Sundays from Covid to retirement, 3 1/2 years.

[grahame]

Unfortunately mission impossible.

It feels like it within the stipulated ground rules. Back (sorry) to my previous suggestion of a 20 year strategy (and to be clear to readers - looking to achieve a lot in the intermediate and MUCH shorter time scale) it should not be impossible.

I would write a visionary paper / post if I thought it would do any good ...

[TaplowGreen]

Unfortunately mission impossible.

So if everyone is put on the compulsory overtime on a Sunday contract you'll have staff going sick for several days to get a Sunday off. There are some staff on this contract who are Sunday exempt.

To put Sundays inside the working week requires an extra 17% staff. Then take into account retirement, promotion to management, disciplinary demotion, medical restrictions and sackings you are always playing catch up. It'll never happen.

Don't forget the morale levels as well.

Never mind.

Up to Covid I worked 40+ Sundays a year. But then my mortgage finished and personal circumstances changed. I probably worked less than 50 Sundays from Covid to retirement, 3 1/2 years.

Compulsory overtime was not one of my suggestions.

One of the things you often tend to notice about those inside the rail industry, or it's devotees, is that they (sometimes in a bizarrely self satisfied way) are very fond of telling you how things can't/won't work, rather than suggesting how they could be made to work or looking for a solution - perhaps there is hope and this mindset will die away as the old guard retire along with terms and conditions that don't reflect the modern era.

This is part of the cultural challenge to which I referred and that fresh minds/ideas are needed - you need to a build a service around what your customer needs, not just about what suits the workforce.

Other businesses and industries have learned this and evolved, or shrivelled to insignificance, or died.............I wonder which fate ultimately awaits the railway?

One thing that is for sure - it doesn't have 20 years to decide it.

[a-driver]

Well, on the basis that I couldn't do much worse than Haigh I'd start from a premise setting out that the railway is a 7 day operation

That’s already accepted.

and that resources must match thif it involves recruiting more staff alongside amending existing contracts to get Sunday in the working week, get it costed and a framework with this and timings set out, agreed and published - look for opportunities to offset what will no doubt be an expensive enterprise through savings elsewhere away from traincrew.

The costings are known, and have been known for sometime.  The fact remains, the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) doesn’t to pay.

In the interim, look for a temporary fix and/or put a timetable in place that is workable, reliable and realistic - not this weekly weekend meltdown with the ludicrous, scarcely credible situation that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are effectively telling the public not to use their services every Sunday.

There’s no point in implementing a temporary fix, because the temporary fix will effectively be the long term solution.  By creating a meltdown every week you’re drawing attention to the problem far higher up the chain.

Overall, (and this is key and runs through everything) reposition the railway as an organisation whose purpose is to serve its customers and reflect their changing needs - acknowledge that it needs major change to achieve this

It doesn’t need major change.  It needs minor tweaks.  Enough staff to run the published timetable for a start and enough rolling stock to meet demand.  You then need a proactive maintenance regime to increase reliability of the infrastructure with a plan to modernise.  You need a long term plan, which is deliverable, to significantly increase capacity.  Increasing capacity in turn will significantly increase punctuality.

Simple.

[a-driver]

One of the things you often tend to notice about those inside the rail industry, or it's devotees, is that they (sometimes in a bizarrely self satisfied way) are very fond of telling you how things can't/won't work, rather than suggesting how they could be made to work or looking for a solution - perhaps there is hope and this mindset will die away as the old guard retire along with terms and conditions that don't reflect the modern era.

This is part of the cultural challenge to which I referred and that fresh minds/ideas are needed - you need to a build a service around what your customer needs, not just about what suits the workforce.

Other businesses and industries have learned this and evolved, or shrivelled to insignificance, or died.............I wonder which fate ultimately awaits the railway?

One thing that is for sure - it doesn't have 20 years to decide it.

The mindset comes from decades of very little government support. We all know what needs to change. We also know that future governments won’t support investing in the railway network. So we just resign ourselves to the fact things will continue to decline.

[UstiImmigrunt]

Unfortunately mission impossible.

So if everyone is put on the compulsory overtime on a Sunday contract you'll have staff going sick for several days to get a Sunday off. There are some staff on this contract who are Sunday exempt.

To put Sundays inside the working week requires an extra 17% staff. Then take into account retirement, promotion to management, disciplinary demotion, medical restrictions and sackings you are always playing catch up. It'll never happen.

Don't forget the morale levels as well.

Never mind.

Up to Covid I worked 40+ Sundays a year. But then my mortgage finished and personal circumstances changed. I probably worked less than 50 Sundays from Covid to retirement, 3 1/2 years.

Compulsory overtime was not one of my suggestions.

One of the things you often tend to notice about those inside the rail industry, or it's devotees, is that they (sometimes in a bizarrely self satisfied way) are very fond of telling you how things can't/won't work, rather than suggesting how they could be made to work or looking for a solution - perhaps there is hope and this mindset will die away as the old guard retire along with terms and conditions that don't reflect the modern era.

This is part of the cultural challenge to which I referred and that fresh minds/ideas are needed - you need to a build a service around what your customer needs, not just about what suits the workforce.

Other businesses and industries have learned this and evolved, or shrivelled to insignificance, or died.............I wonder which fate ultimately awaits the railway?

One thing that is for sure - it doesn't have 20 years to decide it.

If a deal with Sundays inside the working week was on the table 15 years ago I'd probably would have voted for it subject to the terms and conditions. It has been ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) policy for many years to get Sundays inside the working week and no RDW at all. I can't see either aim being completed due to the sheer costs.

And a lot of TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) have gone down the complusory overtime route, XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), AWC and LMR at least.

[grahame]

It doesn’t need major change.  It needs minor tweaks.  Enough staff to run the published timetable for a start and enough rolling stock to meet demand.  You then need a proactive maintenance regime to increase reliability of the infrastructure with a plan to modernise.  You need a long term plan, which is deliverable, to significantly increase capacity.  Increasing capacity in turn will significantly increase punctuality. 

I'm doing more than just "like" - I'm quoting that - hear hear.

I'll go s step further - increase capacity and increased reliability will lead to increased ridership.  And as each train needs just one set of infrastructure to run on, and just one driver and train manager, the cost per passenger carried comes down and the financial model of the railway greatly improves.

[John D]

One of the things you often tend to notice about those inside the rail industry, or it's devotees, is that they (sometimes in a bizarrely self satisfied way) are very fond of telling you how things can't/won't work, rather than suggesting how they could be made to work or looking for a solution - perhaps there is hope and this mindset will die away as the old guard retire along with terms and conditions that don't reflect the modern era.

This is part of the cultural challenge to which I referred and that fresh minds/ideas are needed - you need to a build a service around what your customer needs, not just about what suits the workforce.

Other businesses and industries have learned this and evolved, or shrivelled to insignificance, or died.............I wonder which fate ultimately awaits the railway?

One thing that is for sure - it doesn't have 20 years to decide it.

The mindset comes from decades of very little government support. We all know what needs to change. We also know that future governments won’t support investing in the railway network. So we just resign ourselves to the fact things will continue to decline.

Of course in a normal business where demand varies during the week (or seasonally), you don't advise customers to go away, you do everything in your power, and innovate, to bring in as much revenue as possible (which you don't sign a contract to give away), and then use the extra revenue to invest.

Resigning to an expectation of decline, is just the modern let's give up (rather than let's make sure still have a job in buzzing business in 2-3 decades) approach, rather sad.

COVID ended about 3 years ago, really 1000+ days should have been long enough to move to a new normal, rather than being stuck in a covid era state muddling on.  Especially as it appears might be 2026 or later before anything really improves.

[grahame]

Resigning to an expectation of decline, is just the modern let's give up (rather than let's make sure still have a job in buzzing business in 2-3 decades) approach, rather sad.

There is an argument that asked whether, in certain quarters, people who could do something are in effect working their notice. So might they be looking beyond their current roles to roles they will have in 2 to 5 years time?

COVID ended about 3 years ago, really 1000+ days should have been long enough to move to a new normal, rather than being stuck in a covid era state muddling on.  Especially as it appears might be 2026 or later before anything really improves.

I'm seeing First Group, who run our services, taking a keen interest in open access operations - London to Carmarten, London to Paignton, etc  - and those would have a much better opportunity against an unreliable competitor that's lost business and respect in the years leading up to them starting than against a stong opponent should the current system be put right which (in railway terms) might be done relatively easily.

I'm just raising the question.  GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) managers have denied it to my face on a Zoom call, but it's actions rather that words that will inform us.  We know that First have been buying up Open Access opportunities and logic suggests that they will have taken a list of all such identified opportunities and considered them - they may well be speaking with everyone who has an ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) license.  First is a big organisation, so I would not necessarily expect managers wishing the GWR contractor to be aware of such conversations.

[ChrisB]

I can't disagree with that line of questioning. They may even be watching Go-Op now, and the upcoming share offer./ I wonder whether the prospectus might have something restricting the largest share holding?

[grahame]

I can't disagree with that line of questioning. They may even be watching Go-Op now, and the upcoming share offer./ I wonder whether the prospectus might have something restricting the largest share holding?

Not sure how it works with the Co-op but as I recall, then number of shares you hold does not correlate to the number of votes you get at shareholder meetings.   Not sure what their situation would be in taking loans with conditions to look after the business plans of their shareholders too.

[TaplowGreen]

I don't think this applies to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/government-offers-train-drivers-600-payments-to-work-overtime/ar-AA1vTzqM?ocid=socialshare&pc=U531&cvid=a3c9d0b3bdc148e895cdec0bbf0d86b6&ei=13

[ChrisB]

Seems to refer to LNWR^▸ (London North Western Railway).