Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[bobm]

When do we start taking bets on next Saturday evening’s train service?

[IndustryInsider]

When do we start taking bets on next Saturday evening’s train service?

It’ll be a hell of a lot better that it would have been had the fixture been the day after.

[TaplowGreen]

When do we start taking bets on next Saturday evening’s train service?

It’ll be a hell of a lot better that it would have been had the fixture been the day after.

Which, to be fair, is setting the bar about as low as it's possible to get!

[grahame]

Bet the 1755 Penzance to Paddington is fun tonight given the 1418 1518 and 1618 are all cancelled 

As it approaches Newton Abbot it’s reported there are seats available in all coaches.

The 17:22 from Newquay running just ahead of it also has seats.

I walked out into the city centre in Melksham just after 7 p.m. last night.  Here's the main road:



People simply not travelling.   And predictable too.  For the record / later, it was Sunday, the Glastonbury festival was in progress (the travel valley between the arrival and departure peaks) and the England team was busy thrashing Slovakia in a game of football which was also on the TV.

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) were short of staff to run the trains in the timetable - however the stated plan of NOT cancelling two successive services should have worked on lines that have a frequent schedule.  Good to see the Newquay train running - in Cornwall, losing a train from Newquay or Gunnislake is serious, losing a single train from Penzance not so much.

Would it be approporiate on these exceptional weekends that can be predicted at least a fortnight ahead to schedule a reduced service in the first place rather than leave customers guessing until the day, and relieving pressure on the team on the day in Swindon?  It would allow a thinner co-ordinated timetable.  I don't know what happened at St Ives, Falmouth or Looe yesterday - so where I say "understandable to cancel alternate services"  I am left with a worry that the remaining service (after people have waited an extra hour in Looe) would connect with the path of the alternate cancelled service from Penzance into Plymouth ... double jeopardy.  Proper planning ahead of time, please.

Let's suggest no more than 5 days a year for this sort of change, as there are still the regular users who need to get to work.

In the end, a number of services that were flagged up on JourneyCheck and on station departure board as cancelled or short runs actually ran.  No doubt that's good for the payments to First Group from HM Government, but it really does the customer who's "turned off" the train having checked ahead of time as advised and seen a notice of cancellation.

[TaplowGreen]

Ironically the 1722 Newquay - Paddington (cited above), which has been being cancelled throughout or foreshortened virtually every Sunday, was showing on Journeycheck as starting from Plymouth earlier in the day but appears (for once!) to have run as advertised! 

[grahame]

Ironically the 1722 Newquay - Paddington (cited above), which has been being cancelled throughout or foreshortened virtually every Sunday, was showing on Journeycheck as starting from Plymouth earlier in the day but appears (for once!) to have run as advertised! 

Classic example of how a cutting the plan early (midweek for the coming weekend) would make sense - with a huge proviso that the "amended" service should not become the norm.

[Mark A]

In the end, a number of services that were flagged up on JourneyCheck and on station departure board as cancelled or short runs actually ran.  No doubt that's good for the payments to First Group from HM Government, but it really does the customer who's "turned off" the train having checked ahead of time as advised and seen a notice of cancellation.

I've been wondering about that for some time and it's good* to read this.

Mark

* Not good of course. There's something to be said for an argument that if a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) declares a train will not run and they do so within 72 hours of its departure and it is subsequently reinstated - or if a train runs, but for only part of its route - that train, for both financial support purposes and cancellation stats should be at least in part, treated as having not run at all.

[a-driver]

If services are P-Coded (pre-cancellation) they are removed from the next days train plan, therefore those cancellations would not appear on JourneyCheck.

A lot of “juggling” takes place on the day by planners which results in services being reinstated. If a cancellation appears on JourneyCheck at the start of the day and that service should be treated as not running regardless of whether it is reinstated then you’re going to be in a position where not attempt will be made to reinstate the service or the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) won’t give advance notification.

[TaplowGreen]

I think the last few comments illustrate perfectly one of the major challenges faced by the railway - that is the need for a huge cultural shift to appreciate that their role is one of moving people around, not just trains, and taking action to prioritise a customer centred focus and a better customer experience.

[grahame]

If services are P-Coded (pre-cancellation) they are removed from the next days train plan, therefore those cancellations would not appear on JourneyCheck.

A lot of “juggling” takes place on the day by planners which results in services being reinstated. If a cancellation appears on JourneyCheck at the start of the day and that service should be treated as not running regardless of whether it is reinstated then you’re going to be in a position where not attempt will be made to reinstate the service or the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) won’t give advance notification.

I think the last few comments illustrate perfectly one of the major challenges faced by the railway - that is the need for a huge cultural shift to appreciate that their role is one of moving people around, not just trains, and taking action to prioritise a customer centred focus and a better customer experience.

So how do we reconcile these "cultures" of operational versus customer matters?

Once announced as cancelled / short run, what is the point in moving heaven and earth and everything between to re-instate a service that's going to have a decimated ridership?   What is the point in re-instating a train all the way to Weymouth (as originally scheduled) when you've told people who were waiting on the platform that it's terminating at Yeovil Pen Mill, and mums, dads and grandparents have told upset children, waiting with bucket and spade, that their seaside trip is off, or that they'll have to drive after all?

There is a lot to be said for the 72 hour "rule" and going for stability and a manageable service on the day rather that scrambling extra services.  I can live with planning during Thursday (or even Friday) for what will be available at the weekend and I would far rather have 8 known trains, 98% sure, than I would 11 out of 14 but I didn't know until the day which they would be.   Of course, I would even rather have all 14, but Arcadia is just a dream at the moment.

[TaplowGreen]

If services are P-Coded (pre-cancellation) they are removed from the next days train plan, therefore those cancellations would not appear on JourneyCheck.

A lot of “juggling” takes place on the day by planners which results in services being reinstated. If a cancellation appears on JourneyCheck at the start of the day and that service should be treated as not running regardless of whether it is reinstated then you’re going to be in a position where not attempt will be made to reinstate the service or the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) won’t give advance notification.

I think the last few comments illustrate perfectly one of the major challenges faced by the railway - that is the need for a huge cultural shift to appreciate that their role is one of moving people around, not just trains, and taking action to prioritise a customer centred focus and a better customer experience.

So how do we reconcile these "cultures" of operational versus customer matters?

Once announced as cancelled / short run, what is the point in moving heaven and earth and everything between to re-instate a service that's going to have a decimated ridership?   What is the point in re-instating a train all the way to Weymouth (as originally scheduled) when you've told people who were waiting on the platform that it's terminating at Yeovil Pen Mill, and mums, dads and grandparents have told upset children, waiting with bucket and spade, that their seaside trip is off, or that they'll have to drive after all?

There is a lot to be said for the 72 hour "rule" and going for stability and a manageable service on the day rather that scrambling extra services.  I can live with planning during Thursday (or even Friday) for what will be available at the weekend and I would far rather have 8 known trains, 98% sure, than I would 11 out of 14 but I didn't know until the day which they would be.   Of course, I would even rather have all 14, but Arcadia is just a dream at the moment.

It doesn't have to be a zero sum game, but perhaps the first question when it becomes clear that the full service can't be run should be "What impact will this have on our customers and what can we do to mitigate it?"

Given the shambolic way things are especially at weekends at the moment, it's hard to conclude that this is at the forefront of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) minds.

I'm with you on this Graham. Far better to advertise a cut down, realistic timetable towards the end of the week that customers can base decisions on & rely on, rather than continuing to advertise a full service with last minute messages on Twitter warning of mass cancellations with thousands of customers left stranded/disappointed/facing obscene and dangerous levels of overcrowding.

Make realistic plans, manage expectations.

[a-driver]

If services are P-Coded (pre-cancellation) they are removed from the next days train plan, therefore those cancellations would not appear on JourneyCheck.

A lot of “juggling” takes place on the day by planners which results in services being reinstated. If a cancellation appears on JourneyCheck at the start of the day and that service should be treated as not running regardless of whether it is reinstated then you’re going to be in a position where not attempt will be made to reinstate the service or the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) won’t give advance notification.

I think the last few comments illustrate perfectly one of the major challenges faced by the railway - that is the need for a huge cultural shift to appreciate that their role is one of moving people around, not just trains, and taking action to prioritise a customer centred focus and a better customer experience.

So how do we reconcile these "cultures" of operational versus customer matters?

Once announced as cancelled / short run, what is the point in moving heaven and earth and everything between to re-instate a service that's going to have a decimated ridership?   What is the point in re-instating a train all the way to Weymouth (as originally scheduled) when you've told people who were waiting on the platform that it's terminating at Yeovil Pen Mill, and mums, dads and grandparents have told upset children, waiting with bucket and spade, that their seaside trip is off, or that they'll have to drive after all?

There is a lot to be said for the 72 hour "rule" and going for stability and a manageable service on the day rather that scrambling extra services.  I can live with planning during Thursday (or even Friday) for what will be available at the weekend and I would far rather have 8 known trains, 98% sure, than I would 11 out of 14 but I didn't know until the day which they would be.   Of course, I would even rather have all 14, but Arcadia is just a dream at the moment.

It doesn't have to be a zero sum game, but perhaps the first question when it becomes clear that the full service can't be run should be "What impact will this have on our customers and what can we do to mitigate it?"

Given the shambolic way things are especially at weekends at the moment, it's hard to conclude that this is at the forefront of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) minds.

I'm with you on this Graham. Far better to advertise a cut down, realistic timetable towards the end of the week that customers can base decisions on & rely on, rather than continuing to advertise a full service with last minute messages on Twitter warning of mass cancellations with thousands of customers left stranded/disappointed/facing obscene and dangerous levels of overcrowding.

Make realistic plans, manage expectations.

The issue being there is still a lot of unknowns overnight. Overnight engineering work that overruns, sickness, train failures overnight etc.  With no spare capacity in the fleet would you prefer to see a 10% plus reduction in the timetable which may result in having spare trains sitting in the depot all day and more spare traincrew which then goes back to the obscene and dangerous levels of overcrowding.

[grahame]

The issue being there is still a lot of unknowns overnight. Overnight engineering work that overruns, sickness, train failures overnight etc.  With no spare capacity in the fleet would you prefer to see a 10% plus reduction in the timetable which may result in having spare trains sitting in the depot all day and more spare traincrew which then goes back to the obscene and dangerous levels of overcrowding.

Yes, I would prefer to see a 10%+ reduction in the timetable ahead of time - concrete into specific services being canned (and I have even suggested which of our own services to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)) so that the rest run 98% reliable.  What that 10% must not become, though, is the new norm, with the remaining 90% being the base for the next 10% reduction.

Spare trains in the depot?  Add them onto the trains that are going to be most crowded.  Spare train crew?  I can think of all sorts of jobs that need doing (such as doing some more revenue protection and some customer support at otherwise busy but un(der)staffed stations) - but of course that would raise all sorts of issues.   

A question for train crew / operational staff.   Do you feel / are you pressured to work lots of overtime and short notice shifts?   Would you prefer / be happier with a more planned and a bit less last minute / extra work, or is it vital for your income.   

Which translates to "should we be chasing the goal of running a timetable which only works on the resources we have on perfect days?"

[ChrisB]

I would like to see some research done as to when (how far ahead) passengers do their research for their journey - and whether/how often they might then check again that it's running.

Until that is done, it is quite difficult to say that if they P-cancel a Saturday service on the Thursday before, whether reinstating it on Friday or even Saturday is pointless as no one will be aiming to travel on it. I think you'll be surprised that the vast majority don't plan that far ahead....and if they have, don't continually check it in the days/hours leading up to it.

[IndustryInsider]

I would like to see some research done as to when (how far ahead) passengers do their research for their journey - and whether/how often they might then check again that it's running.

Until that is done, it is quite difficult to say that if they P-cancel a Saturday service on the Thursday before, whether reinstating it on Friday or even Saturday is pointless as no one will be aiming to travel on it. I think you'll be surprised that the vast majority don't plan that far ahead....and if they have, don't continually check it in the days/hours leading up to it.

Very good point.  And as well as that, some data on what actual percentage of trains are advertised on JourneyCheck as cancelled/short run against what percentage end up running as advertised…and vice-versa…and how much notice is given for the reinstatement/cancellation.

When you’ve got the data you can then make a more informed decision on which the least worst option is.

The enhanced Rest Day Work payment agreed could make quite a difference over the summer schools holidays and beyond, though (as mentioned before) might leave Sunday’s even more vulnerable.