Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[bobm]

Dread to think how passengers were supposed to get from Paddington to Cornwall - last service was at 1400 !! 

Via Bristol?

As mentioned on the previous page there was disruption to services to Bristol yesterday which would have made that problematic.

[a-driver]

As mentioned on the previous page there was disruption to services to Bristol yesterday which would have made that problematic.

Fair enough, I can only go by what’s showing on RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website).

[bobm]

Very much so.  With things like Journeycheck being transitory with no back history it is often hard to keep up.

[Timmer]

Given that the desire of their staff to watch football matches now seems to be a decisive factor in whether or not GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) run a viable service.

Do you realise just how pathetic that sounds? That a sector of the service industry be subject to a football match beggars belief. Sure, it was also Father’s Day yesterday but things ran fairly smoothly in Wales. Ah yes, Wales aren’t playing in Euro 24!

Also, as I mentioned elsewhere yesterday, SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) had few issues, though I suspect ‘The Mule’ was carrying extra passengers who were offloaded GWR London services up from the South West that were terminating at Exeter or Taunton.

To say this is just isolated to GWR would be unfair, Northern and LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) had their issues too:

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/trains-cancelled-england-euro-match-staff-shortage-b2563859.html

“DO NOT TRAVEL” – that was the stark warning from Northern Rail to passengers in northwest England on Sunday afternoon and evening.

The state-run train operator warned passengers of “significant disruption and cancellation, meaning later services will not be able to run”.

Northern blamed: “High levels of train crew sickness and non-availability.”

The picture was replicated elsewhere in the country. Between Penzance and London Paddington on Great Western Railway (GWR), there was a gap of over seven hours between services.

On the East Coast main line, 10 LNER expresses were cancelled or curtailed, mainly between London and Edinburgh. Some of the trains that did run were reported to be “full and standing”.

[IndustryInsider]

Sure, it was also Father’s Day yesterday but things ran fairly smoothly in Wales. Ah yes, Wales aren’t playing in Euro 24!

TfW have also settled on their pay and restructuring deals as they were not stopped from doing so by the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) that deal included Sundays becoming part of the working week for drivers from the last timetable change.

[ray951]

I think it is to easy to blame issues like Sunday working on the Dft/Government but GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)/FGW^▸ (First Great Western)/ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about)/RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) have had 26 years to sort this out and the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport)/Government haven't been micro managing them the whole time.

In my opinion it is a failure of both the management and employees to come to an agreement about this issue and neither appear to care about how this may impact the travelling public.

And I am not sure why those who advocate (like many on this site) for either people to travel by rail or for further investment in rail bother when many of those running the railway seem to think that the world revolves around them and have forgetten that the passengers (and taxpayers) need a reliable 7-day service.

[IndustryInsider]

I think it’s only been a problem since Sunday travel became so incredibly popular 15 or so years ago and working practices that ‘worked’ previously became unsuitable.

Yes, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) did little about it, but at least it was being seriously discussed before Covid.  Since Covid only operators outside the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)’s shackles have tried (and in some cases succeeded) in bringing Sunday’s within the working week.  It formed no part of the settlement offer made to ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) that was rejected.  There have been no discussions since.

So, yes, it’s easy to blame the DfT because for the past few years they are to blame.

[TaplowGreen]

I think it’s only been a problem since Sunday travel became so incredibly popular 15 or so years ago and working practices that ‘worked’ previously became unsuitable.

Yes, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) did little about it, but at least it was being seriously discussed before Covid.  Since Covid only operators outside the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)’s shackles have tried (and in some cases succeeded) in bringing Sunday’s within the working week.  It formed no part of the settlement offer made to ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) that was rejected.  There have been no discussions since.

So, yes, it’s easy to blame the DfT because for the past few years they are to blame.

I think we can accept that for the last 3 or so years the DfT are to blame, and for the preceeding 20 years it sat with the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)/Trade Unions.

The substance of the "serious discussions" to which you allude would make interesting reading I'm sure. The impression was always that it had been filed on the "too difficult" pile.

As Ray suggests though, the one common thread is that customers have been entirely disregarded throughout.

A huge and ongoing failure by all concerned.

[IndustryInsider]

The substance of the "serious discussions" to which you allude would make interesting reading I'm sure. The impression was always that it had been filed on the "too difficult" pile.

We probably discussed it at the time?

From memory it was included as part of the driver harmonisation agreement of around 2017 with a target implementation of 2019 subject to further discussions and agreement (along with the recruitment and training of the extra drivers needed).

The Unions were then (and are now) happy to talk about it - they get a jump in membership numbers after all - but from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) side the impetus started to wane over the next year or so and then of course Covid came along.

[a-driver]

I think it is to easy to blame issues like Sunday working on the Dft/Government but GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)/FGW^▸ (First Great Western)/ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about)/RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) have had 26 years to sort this out and the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport)/Government haven't been micro managing them the whole time.

Franchises have ALWAYS been micromanaged, just they were a little more lenient pre-Covid.

Staffing levels (depot establishments) are agreed and specified in the franchise agreement, any changes that incurs extra costs needed approval from the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).  This prevents a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) being reckless and handing back the keys
GWR/FGW can talk all they want about Sunday’s in the working week but ultimately it’s always needed the DfT to sign it off.  I can’t see Sundays ever being in the working week and a ‘commitment to working Sunday’s’ just isn’t a workable solution.

[TaplowGreen]

Two weeks ago....started from Plymouth.....last Sunday....cancelled.......today.....terminated at Plymouth.

What is the point of marketing it as a through service to get people home after a weekend away?



17:22 Newquay to London Paddington due 22:29 will be terminated at Plymouth.
It will no longer call at Ivybridge, Totnes, Newton Abbot, Teignmouth, Dawlish, Exeter St Davids, Tiverton Parkway, Taunton, Reading and London Paddington.

This is due to a shortage of train crew.

(Obviously one amongst many given that it's Sunday but it does stand out)

[grahame]

Two weeks ago....started from Plymouth.....last Sunday....cancelled.......today.....terminated at Plymouth.

What is the point of marketing it as a through service to get people home after a weekend away?

A bit like a manifesto - people buy into it, but it's rarely delivered in full and the people have to make do with a lesser product than the one they were promised?

[CyclingSid]

Saturday afternoon at Guildford. Reading to Gatwick Airport service cancelled due to shortage of train crew. Presumanly Delay Repay does not cover the cost of a replacement flight.

[grahame]

Saturday afternoon at Guildford. Reading to Gatwick Airport service cancelled due to shortage of train crew. Presumanly Delay Repay does not cover the cost of a replacement flight.

It's prudent to allow a "backup" train if you're travelling to catch a flight ... just as it's prudent to allow for getting stuck in traffic on the M25 if you're driving for which Highways England don't compensate you at all.   Having said which, 2 trains in succession were cancelled into Gatwick from Reading so that may have been getting a bit tight.

With some exceptions, delay / repay - even to the extent of getting all your money back - is not really what people want.  They want a reliable service, and if it DOES go horribly, horribly, horribly wrong they don't want to be out of pocket - and that means consequential expenses if they have left reasonable safeguards.

[Timmer]

Journeycheck looking more like it’s the weekend not a weekday. Ah yes, England are playing.