Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Oxonhutch]

You obviously didn't look at the PDF linked to at the bottom of the article

The aerial work looked interesting ! 

[TonyK]

You obviously didn't look at the PDF linked to at the bottom of the article

I didn't notice it, but have now read it - thanks! Good wiring is a thing of beauty, and it is clearly worth taking a very close look at.

[Bmblbzzz]

Tony K's photo is quite neat compared to some I saw when I was there. The process seems to be that 'legitimate' electricity and phone cables get used as support for a host of cable TV and broadband wiring, which is often simply draped from the existing stuff, wound round it or, for the neatest stuff, perhaps attached to the poles with zip ties, string and jubilee clips. Draped over trees and buildings at random too. Then (or actually before that) there are DIY wires pirating the electricity supply and quite possible the cables too. All at heights varying from head to tree top. Of course, quite a bit of it is no longer in use; the cable firm has gone bust, the broadband has switched to something else, the phone's been disconnected, and so on. But there are no records kept of which is which.

[Bmblbzzz]

I'm also wondering about supply. I presume it must be relatively easy to ensure a reliable, dedicated high-voltage, 'high level' (pun not intended) supply, and the blackouts and 'load shedding' which plague Indian electricity must be down to problems and overloading further downstream.

[Electric train]

I'm also wondering about supply. I presume it must be relatively easy to ensure a reliable, dedicated high-voltage, 'high level' (pun not intended) supply, and the blackouts and 'load shedding' which plague Indian electricity must be down to problems and overloading further downstream.

I acted as a host for 2 groups of India State Railways electrification supervisors in the 1990's,  very interesting groups they were 2 very knowledgeable and keen.

The one thing I did learn about the Indian State Railway they also own and operate there own 132kV power lines to ensure they maintain the supply, in some remote areas they also act as the electricity provider to local communities.   At one time they even owned power stations

[Red Squirrel]

From time to time in this thread, someone has suggested that electrifying the railway through Bath would be difficult because Bath people would never wear it.

Now I know Bath people, and for the most part they're a reasonable bunch: A bit chippy, living as they do in the armpit of Bristol  , but otherwise generally up for doing the Right Thing. So who could have been responsible for suggesting they'd rather stick with diesel power?

Grayling signals Bath rail electrification axe

Electrification of a key stretch of the Great Western route could be scrapped because unsightly overhead lines could spoil the appearance of the historic city of Bath.

In an interview in the Bristol Post last week, transport secretary Chris Grayling said that the new hybrid trains planned for the route will deliver significant cuts to journey times anyway, and questioned whether spending millions of pounds on electrifying some parts of the route was necessary.

...continues

Source: New Civil Engineer, 8 Feb 2017

[MVR S&T]

Let's get Bristol done next, and I supose with BI mode trains some bits could be wired up, I seem to recal the eastern approch is a bit run down and the station itself to cut diesel emissions in city centre, also 5 car 80x trains for Cardiff to Portsmouth. Looks like now cures for Covid has begun, climate is back on the medias agenda as the next 'click bait'.

[TonyK]

Let's get Bristol done next, and I supose with BI mode trains some bits could be wired up, I seem to recal the eastern approch is a bit run down and the station itself to cut diesel emissions in city centre, also 5 car 80x trains for Cardiff to Portsmouth. Looks like now cures for Covid has begun, climate is back on the medias agenda as the next 'click bait'.

Chris Grayling and soon-to-be-ex-President Trump aside, I don't think the debate around climate, pollution and the environment is going to fade away any time soon. It's not a matter of if we should move away from fossil fuels, but when and how.

One of the big challenges is to sort out the wheat from the chaff , and find out what really is the best combination of solutions, because whenever the government comes up with an idea after a lot of lobbying, the clever people change their behaviour to fit the profile for money, rather than what is really a good idea. Nobody seems that bothered about doing that, though, so it's all piecemeal. As an example in transport, a university has found that tyre and brake particle pollution is significantly higher from electric cars than fossil fuel cars, and could pose a serious health risk. The reason is weight of batteries, something that wasn't really thought about a few years ago. A solution could be trams rather than buses on busy routes, but someone will have to crunch those numbers. In power generation, the idea of using wood waste instead of coal has become a juggernaut that is consuming forests, and calling it green, and there was the famous Northern Ireland scheme that made it worthwhile to burn electricity in places like car showrooms, seldom heated previously.

With diesel trains, there is a very obvious solution. Stick cables up - no more diesel fumes from trains. Steel wheels on steel rail cause particles to hit the atmosphere, but they quickly fall to the ground, unlike rubber. It can't be put off forever.

[Bmblbzzz]

?The arrival of hybrid technology means we don?t have to put up unsightly overhead lines in places where either you wouldn?t want them, like historic Bath, or through attractive country areas where you are not getting the speed gains,? Grayling told the Bristol newspaper.

Never mind 'historic Bath', I'm worried by the implications of the second part of his statement. All of a sudden it's not worth electrifying route sections in countryside; electrification becomes purely an urban and suburban project, suitable for metropolitan commuter routes only.

But supposing the electric string does reach Bristol down the Filton Bank, and as a result via Parkway becomes the default route to London. What will be the long-term effect on Bath? And on other towns between Bristol and Swindon, such as Chippenham or Keynesham?

[broadgage]

In view of the strong opposition in Bath to OHLE, I don't mind if "via Bath" becomes the secondary, or less preferred, or less used route between London and the West.
And if the people of Bath complain, they can be told  "We listened to the strongly held views that opposed electrification through Bath, and have therefore electrified the alternative route. The faster and greener electric trains use the main line, with the route via Bath being served by a more limited service of slower services"

[MVR S&T]

What is the attraction with London anyway?

[TonyK]

What is the attraction with London anyway?

It has a railway leading out.

[grahame]

In view of the strong opposition in Bath to OHLE, I don't mind if "via Bath" becomes the secondary, or less preferred, or less used route between London and the West.

But ... Bristol to Bath and to the places beyond is, even excluding London, is [another] major flow. I'm not sure that the best / greenest / most efficient way for all those South Wales / WECA^» (West of England Combined Authority - about) to Wiltshire / Dorset / Solent passengers should be compromised to the extent of marginalisation.

What is the attraction with London anyway?

Much less than it was!

And if the people of Bath complain, they can be told  "We listened to the strongly held views that opposed electrification through Bath, and have therefore electrified the alternative route. The faster and greener electric trains use the main line, with the route via Bath being served by a more limited service of slower services"

But ... have we heard from the people of Bath, or a noisy and unrepresentative section of the population of Bath?

What does it matter if any remaining "super fasts" that wouldn't call at Bath Spa anyway pass through there or not?

[Electric train]

And if the people of Bath complain, they can be told  "We listened to the strongly held views that opposed electrification through Bath, and have therefore electrified the alternative route. The faster and greener electric trains use the main line, with the route via Bath being served by a more limited service of slower services"

But ... have we heard from the people of Bath, or a noisy and unrepresentative section of the population of Bath?

I am guessing if you asked the average Bathonian there response would huh, meh, what      in other words most would not have an opinion, some might not even knew Bath has a railway station

[CyclingSid]

They didn't like wind turbines in

attractive country areas

so they stuck them off-shore. Water wings for trains?