Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Western Pathfinder]

Because we are coming out of Europe now it seems, Are Network Rail going to have to abandon E.R.T.M.S. Also confused as to what it is, but sounds ever so expensive.

European Rail Traffic Management System
Put simply in cab signaling system with direct contact with the driver ,rather than having signal equipment at the lineside as we have at the moment.

[Dispatch Box]

Because we are coming out of Europe now it seems, Are Network Rail going to have to abandon E.R.T.M.S. Also confused as to what it is, but sounds ever so expensive.

European Rail Traffic Management System
Put simply in cab signaling system with direct contact with the driver ,rather than having signal equipment at the lineside as we have at the moment.

This does not sound to be very safe to me, I feel a lot safer on a train if a driver can see an actual signal and a route indicator.

[grahame]

This does not sound to be very safe to me, I feel a lot safer on a train if a driver can see an actual signal and a route indicator.

Feeling and being safe are not necessarily the same thing, of course.

And the driver does get a signal - just that it's in his cab and not out in the foul weather where it has be be ruggedised and maintained in those tough conditions, and cannot be easily moved ...

[JayMac]

This does not sound to be very safe to me, I feel a lot safer on a train if a driver can see an actual signal and a route indicator.

In-cab signalling is a proven technology. Its in use on High Speed 1 in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), on lines across Europe, China and Japan use it on their high speed lines, and it is being introduced in many other countries on their 'classic' lines.

[SandTEngineer]

This does not sound to be very safe to me, I feel a lot safer on a train if a driver can see an actual signal and a route indicator.

In-cab signalling is a proven technology. Its in use on High Speed 1 in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), on lines across Europe, China and Japan use it on their high speed lines, and it is being introduced in many other countries on their 'classic' lines.

.....and the London Underground Victoria Line has had such a system since 1968.....

[Dispatch Box]

This does not sound to be very safe to me, I feel a lot safer on a train if a driver can see an actual signal and a route indicator.

In-cab signalling is a proven technology. Its in use on High Speed 1 in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), on lines across Europe, China and Japan use it on their high speed lines, and it is being introduced in many other countries on their 'classic' lines.

.....and the London Underground Victoria Line has had such a system since 1968.....

Did not think that it had already been used. For arguments sake. For example, if it was already installed between Birmingham New Street and Westerleigh Junction, how would a driver know which route he is given at signal G50 at Barnwood Junction. At the moment he has a four Aspect signal with a Pos 4,5,6 Junction Indicator. No indicator is down avoiding, pos 4 is up avoiding + avoiding loop via extra stencil, pos 5 down loop, pos 6 down main into Gloucester. Then another signal with the same indications G52, but with routes to the platforms. So what type of screen or device would he have for the routes described and does he have some sort of marker board where the block section is.

[Electric train]

Because we are coming out of Europe now it seems, Are Network Rail going to have to abandon E.R.T.M.S. Also confused as to what it is, but sounds ever so expensive.

No, the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) is one of the lead specifiers in the systems.  Network Rail (NR^» (Network Rail - home page)) will remain compliant with Turbocharged Stratified Injection (TSI), however UK Gov have indicated some relaxing of some requirements which they could do irrespective of being in the EU^» (European Union - about) or not

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronyms

[ellendune]

Because we are coming out of Europe now it seems, Are Network Rail going to have to abandon E.R.T.M.S. Also confused as to what it is, but sounds ever so expensive.

We could do, but since the main manufacturers will be making all their products ERTMS^▸ (European Rail Traffic Management System.) compliant - as a large number of the customers will require that - it will probably be more expensive in the long run to abandon it here in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). To specify non-standard products would add expense.

[SandTEngineer]

This does not sound to be very safe to me, I feel a lot safer on a train if a driver can see an actual signal and a route indicator.

In-cab signalling is a proven technology. Its in use on High Speed 1 in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), on lines across Europe, China and Japan use it on their high speed lines, and it is being introduced in many other countries on their 'classic' lines.

.....and the London Underground Victoria Line has had such a system since 1968.....

Did not think that it had already been used. For arguments sake. For example, if it was already installed between Birmingham New Street and Westerleigh Junction, how would a driver know which route he is given at signal G50 at Barnwood Junction. At the moment he has a four Aspect signal with a Pos 4,5,6 Junction Indicator. No indicator is down avoiding, pos 4 is up avoiding + avoiding loop via extra stencil, pos 5 down loop, pos 6 down main into Gloucester. Then another signal with the same indications G52, but with routes to the platforms. So what type of screen or device would he have for the routes described and does he have some sort of marker board where the block section is.

Suggest you put the kettle on and have a little read of this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Train_Control_System

[SandTEngineer]

Because we are coming out of Europe now it seems, Are Network Rail going to have to abandon E.R.T.M.S. Also confused as to what it is, but sounds ever so expensive.

We could do, but since the main manufacturers will be making all their products ERTMS^▸ (European Rail Traffic Management System.) compliant - as a large number of the customers will require that - it will probably be more expensive in the long run to abandon it here in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). To specify non-standard products would add expense.

...and who would actally manufacture any alternative system?  We don't have any such manufacturers in the UK now 

[Dispatch Box]

Because we are coming out of Europe now it seems, Are Network Rail going to have to abandon E.R.T.M.S. Also confused as to what it is, but sounds ever so expensive.

We could do, but since the main manufacturers will be making all their products ERTMS^▸ (European Rail Traffic Management System.) compliant - as a large number of the customers will require that - it will probably be more expensive in the long run to abandon it here in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). To specify non-standard products would add expense.

...and who would actally manufacture any alternative system?  We don't have any such manufacturers in the UK now 

Why don't unipart?. They are making other signalling systems.

[SandTEngineer]

Because we are coming out of Europe now it seems, Are Network Rail going to have to abandon E.R.T.M.S. Also confused as to what it is, but sounds ever so expensive.

We could do, but since the main manufacturers will be making all their products ERTMS^▸ (European Rail Traffic Management System.) compliant - as a large number of the customers will require that - it will probably be more expensive in the long run to abandon it here in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). To specify non-standard products would add expense.

...and who would actally manufacture any alternative system?  We don't have any such manufacturers in the UK now 

Why don't unipart?. They are making other signalling systems.

Unipart don't manufacture anything.  They are a supply chain organisation.

[Dispatch Box]

Because we are coming out of Europe now it seems, Are Network Rail going to have to abandon E.R.T.M.S. Also confused as to what it is, but sounds ever so expensive.

We could do, but since the main manufacturers will be making all their products ERTMS^▸ (European Rail Traffic Management System.) compliant - as a large number of the customers will require that - it will probably be more expensive in the long run to abandon it here in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). To specify non-standard products would add expense.

...and who would actally manufacture any alternative system?  We don't have any such manufacturers in the UK now 

Why don't unipart?. They are making other signalling systems.

Unipart don't manufacture anything.  They are a supply chain organisation.

Didn't they used to supply car parts at one time?. the only one I knew, closed down.

[Western Pathfinder]

They were at one time the parts delivery and supplies operation of BLMC / Austin Rover.

[welshman]

ERTMS^▸ (European Rail Traffic Management System.) has been in use on the Cambrian Line for a number of years.

Back to the subject heading, I travelled from CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) yesterday on a 9 car IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.).  We plugged into the mains at BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains).

Oddly, on the return 9 car (stopping at Didcot) we went on to diesel for the Didcot restart before reverting to OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") after a few minutes and while in motion.  The diesels were restarted as we slowed between Westerleigh Junction and BPW.