Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[TonyK]

Once again IB25 Pad / Swi left Swindon “Pan up “  slowing to a near stop before recovering the situation by dropping the pan and starting the Diesel engines. Could as Grahame sujested last time been “ testing/ training or intentionally done “ or another case of these so called professional drivers being “ a sleep at the wheel “

Welcome to the Coffee Shop, Drkpm!

It sounds like Drkpm just has a disliking of drivers for some reason.

I'm sure time on the Coffee Shop will give him an insight into the truth of the matter.

[Drkpm]

Tony, What is the truth of the matter, clearly the signage at the western end of all the platforms says “ no electric trains passed this point “ so why are drivers purposely ignoring it ?

[grahame]

Tony, What is the truth of the matter, clearly the signage at the western end of all the platforms says “ no electric trains passed this point “ so why are drivers purposely ignoring it ?

May I suggest there's probably very good reason to start from Swindon under electric power and switch on the move as the switched on section ends.  There is something of parallel situation of trains running off the end of overhead wires - at Blackfriars - and to my knowledge only one instance of that ring wrong, so it seems unlikely that it keeps going wrong at Swindon - especially with all the modern recording gubbins on trains these days that will report back to HQ^▸ (HeadQuarters) ...

It says "no electric trains" and not "no bi-mode trains under electric power".  Perhaps it's needed there to ensure that no-one drives a 387 into a section where it would get stuck ...

[TonyK]

Tony, What is the truth of the matter, clearly the signage at the western end of all the platforms says “ no electric trains passed this point “ so why are drivers purposely ignoring it ?

I am as yet unfamiliar with the new layout, but a sign like that sounds rather prescriptive. However, the railway is nothing if not complicated, and that sign may be simply for any pure electric trains, rather than the hybrids, as they would not be able to get back without assistance if the electricity ended after the next set of points. An expert will no doubt tell us the proper version.

Edit: As grahame said as I was typing.

[IndustryInsider]

I don’t expect anyone has been purposely ignoring it, but drivers are supposed to change power mode in the station AIUI^▸ ('as I understand it').

Probably one or two mistakes have been made, with human error the likely cause, but with significant mitigating factors including: 1) No reminder system other than lineside signage and whatever personal system they use, 2) Many drivers will have been driving IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) west from Swindon for over a year without having to remember such actions, 3) Many drivers will have been driving High Speed Trains (HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)))s west from Swindon for many years (often decades) without having to remember to take such actions.

It would appear in both cases (if they happened as reported - I haven’t seen anything official) that no major harm was done.

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronym

[Drkpm]

I will says only one more thing and leave it that.......I was a working medical doctor, if I had forgot to do procedure because of custom and practice, I would not only have be disaplined and a patient would/could have suffered

[Bob_Blakey]

...clearly the signage at the western end of all the platforms says “ no electric trains passed this point “...

How does the author of the signs know this? Have they taken up permanent residence at the station?

[IndustryInsider]

I will says only one more thing and leave it that.......I was a working medical doctor, if I had forgot to do procedure because of custom and practice, I would not only have be disaplined and a patient would/could have suffered

I’m glad you never made any mistakes.  Though of course we know that plenty of mistakes in the medical field are made.  Rest assured that any breaches of driver working practices and procedures are investigated and where appropriate disciplinary action is taken.

[Drkpm]

Thank you”IndustryInsider” at last a realistic answer/reason, and not excuses based on so hypothetical technology that seams to be a figment of some of the members imagination........I will say on more thing and then call it a day on this particular subject......I was a practicing medical doctor and if I had forgot to undertake a procedure be it new or established, I would have rightly be dicaplined.

[IndustryInsider]

Can I just ask how you know that it definitely left Swindon initially on electric power before switching to diesel?  Did you observe it from the station or from on the train?

[Drkpm]

Watch  the “ Pan drop “ and then the diesels started, was on the car park road which runs parallel to the station, the driving coach and the second coach had left the paltform before the diesels start, I was not the only one to witness it.......as I said before the subject as far as I am concerned is closed....drkpm

[IndustryInsider]

Ok, thanks for clarifying.  Had it been observed from on the train there might have been a different (and less serious) explanation with the train appearing to be on electric, but that’s obviously not the case.

[MVR S&T]

The pantograph drop signs are beyond the platforms by around 2 coaches, and its an automated system, so all seems correct.

[Celestial]

I find it somewhat ironic that the poster accusing drivers of being unprofessional (which has since been disproved, and I guess which many found offensive), has littered their posts with some fairly awful spelling mistakes, despite being a well educated doctor.

As a newbie I'm not sure what the etiquette is, but it also seems poor form to make such an accusation, and then suggest that the discussion be closed when others seek to challenge that view?

I wouldn't like to be a driver.  It must demand a lot of skill, knowledge and concentration all the time, and I'm sure they all act very professionally. But everyone is human, and so slips will always happen, even if it seems in this case, the original accusation was wrong anyway. 

[IndustryInsider]

The pantograph drop signs are beyond the platforms by around 2 coaches, and its an automated system, so all seems correct.

The instruction for drivers working passenger trains is to change to diesel mode when stationary and not wait until a few seconds after departure (as obviously the risk of distraction is greater when on the move), so it's not all correct as such, but again not a massive issue provided it is changed very shortly after departure.  Test trains are permitted to operate with their pan up.

This all changes anyway on 30th December when electric passenger running through to Bristol Parkway commences.

There will be the following changes at Swindon then:

1) Trains to/from Bristol Parkway can stay in electric mode between Causeway and Bristol Parkway.
2) Trains to/from Chippenham or Kemble will need to change mode when stopped at Swindon station, unless not stopping at Swindon in which case:
2a) Up direction trains continue on diesel and perform a change to electric mode (at Didcot Parkway, if stopping there, or Moreton Cutting if not) unless their speed drops to less than 20mph when they can change on the move.
2b) Down direction trains must change back to diesel  at either SW1161 or SW1163 signals.

At Bristol Parkway:
1) Down direction trains change to diesel where there will be signage just before the station, unless they are headed to Stoke Gifford in which case they can stay on electric mode
2) Up direction trains stopping at Bristol Parkway must change to electric mode whilst at the station.
3) Up direction trains not stopping at Bristol Parkway must change to electric mode in a special zone east of Parkway station.

Perhaps that little lot might explain why the odd mistake is made?