Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Red Squirrel]

Buses went decimal on Feb 21st - 'D-Day+6'; I believe the logic was that this was a good way to hoover up a lot of loose change as (in town, anyway) not many bus fares were over a shilling. Only halfpennies, pennies and threepences were replaced on Feb 15th; 6d coins remained in circulation for many years and the smaller coppers could be used in multiples of 6d, hence the jingle (oft heard on 'Decimal 5' before the 6 o'clock news) Use you old coppers in sixpenny lots.

Talking of copper: isn't that what they use on OHLE, like they are installing on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line)?

[Bmblbzzz]

I remember that shilling and two-shilling coins continued in circulation for many years post-decimalisation. I don't remember pre-decimalisation money at all, but I remember those coins in use as the equivalent of 5p and 10p, so a 6d coin must have been worth 2¹/₂p, which is an unconventional sum!

[didcotdean]

The Decimal Currency Board recommended the old 6d be demonetised at decimalisation, as it seemed illogical to have a coin at 2p and 2.5p. Politicians intervened to keep it, although in practice it disappeared from regular circulation pretty quickly. I do remember being surprised around 1976 to receive one in change though. It was finally demonetised in 1980.

[stuving]

I remember that shilling and two-shilling coins continued in circulation for many years post-decimalisation. I don't remember pre-decimalisation money at all, but I remember those coins in use as the equivalent of 5p and 10p, so a 6d coin must have been worth 2¹/₂p, which is an unconventional sum!

There were two conversions proposed seriously, 1 new pound = 10s or 20s. In favour of 10s was that most everyday transactions were in shillings, even for sums of over £1, and a factor of 10 is a lot easier to cope with. While keeping pounds made bigger sums easier to handle, these usually had one money business or professional involved, and a factor of two wouldn't bother them. In the end the "foreigners won't understand and will lose confidence in Sterling" argument won.

I can remember Jim Callaghan on TV making the case that 1s=5p would be easier for us all in low-value transactions than 1s=10p - and with am impressively straight face, too.

[didcotdean]

There were other proposals apart from a 10 shilling dollar, which the Commonwealth countries mainly opted for. One was a unit based on 8/4, ie 100d. There was a trial series of coins stuck which included a decimal farthing, but inflation through the 1960s already negated the necessity of that when it came to the real series.

[broadgage]

I remember that shilling and two-shilling coins continued in circulation for many years post-decimalisation. I don't remember pre-decimalisation money at all, but I remember those coins in use as the equivalent of 5p and 10p, so a 6d coin must have been worth 2¹/₂p, which is an unconventional sum!

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) the old sixpence, worth two and a half new pence, was retained partly at the request of London buses since many bus fares were 6 old pence at the time.
Also the 50 new pence coin was introduced well before D day, to be used in place of the ten shilling note.
This was for two reasons, firstly to gently get people used to the new money in easy stages, and secondly to avoid printing more 10 shilling notes, these being in short supply at the time.

[metalrail]

I remember that shilling and two-shilling coins continued in circulation for many years post-decimalisation. I don't remember pre-decimalisation money at all, but I remember those coins in use as the equivalent of 5p and 10p, so a 6d coin must have been worth 2¹/₂p, which is an unconventional sum!

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) the old sixpence, worth two and a half new pence, was retained partly at the request of London buses since many bus fares were 6 old pence at the time.
Also the 50 new pence coin was introduced well before D day, to be used in place of the ten shilling note.
This was for two reasons, firstly to gently get people used to the new money in easy stages, and secondly to avoid printing more 10 shilling notes, these being in short supply at the time.

Plus don't forget they were also kept to stick in xmas puddings...  ready to choke on!  I remember me mam collecting them when it was announced they were going out of circulation in the late 70s, so we still had to suffer 'choke roulette' on xmas day for years after!

[TonyK]

Talking of copper: isn't that what they use on OHLE, like they are installing on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line)?

Ah yes, a prompt to get back on thread. Sorry, Sir!

Plus don't forget they were also kept to stick in xmas puddings...  ready to choke on!  I remember me mam collecting them when it was announced they were going out of circulation in the late 70s, so we still had to suffer 'choke roulette' on xmas day for years after!

Ooh! Mrs FT, N! still has a couple of the silver 3d pieces, taken over from her mother, which go into the Christmas pud. Being smaller than the tanner, it wasn't "choke roulette" at our house. The attrition rate is largely down to improved plumbing - she had about eight to begin with.

[Robin Summerhill]

.... but in practice nearly every business owner wanted to be seen to be moderns and with the times and it certainly felt like 99% plus changed on day one.

The 1% that didn't, if I recall, was British Rail(ways), who were given dispensation to change on day zero cos their accounting week started on a Sunday.   

That's not how I remember things. In those pre-computer days I, working in the Divisional Paybill Office in Bristol as I was at the time, were were working for weeks beforehand doing the conversions the old-fashioned way. By hand. That is the reason why the date of 15th February 1971 is burnt into my memory!

It also might explain why I still convert back. I got some funny looks a few monrhs back in Sainsburys when I loudly said to myself; "How much!! I'm not paying 11 shillings for a time of peas...

[Clan Line]

Why do the Germans always do it better than we do ??  Even in the field of almighty foul-ups (being polite here) they have seemed to have beaten the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) effort by a mile (1.609344 kilometres)..........

http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20181030-what-happened-to-berlins-ghost-airport

[didcotdean]

Last Saturday I walked up Eastbourne Terrace, something I haven't done in years, as usually when I leave Paddington it is by underground. Looking at the current outside state of the Crossrail station, and the works that were going on around it, I struggle to understand how it was thought until fairly recently that this could open next month.

[stuving]

There was a report on BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) South local news tonight about a report for Network Rail on the vexed topic of he OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") at Goring Gap. I can't find that online with the BBC, nor Network Rail, but there is this from the Henley Standard (Goring page):

METAL gantries installed along the railway line in the Goring area should be made more attractive, according to a report commissioned by Network Rail.

Engineering firm Balfour Beatty has recommended a number of measures to reduce the visual impact of the gantries, which were put up in March 2015 as part of the electrification of the Great Western main line to Oxford.

These include:
•Replacing the gantries with slimmer or shorter designs.
• Painting them in more natural colours.
• Bringing some of the overhead equipment down to ground level.
• Planting more trees, shrubs and hedging at the edge of the line.

Network Rail says none of this can be done unless the Government is willing to fund it

There is even more detail on some of those, though in part that shows the HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) have misundestood some terms:

The report says the simplest solution is to move the bulky electrical transformers from the top of each pillar to ground level, reducing their height by about 1ft. The horizontal booms could be made thinner and solid or the entire gantry could be replaced with a slimmer goalpost shape, as happened with the Grade II listed Gatehampton railway bridge to improve its appearance.

They could also be replaced with a T-shaped structure which was used at Moulsford viaduct to conserve views.

Replacing the solid spans with metal wires has been ruled out as this design is considered unreliable and dangerous to repair.

The report says the landscape is mostly yellow with hints of green and red while the gantries are grey and the accompanying fencing is dark green, which clashes.

It suggests painting five gantries in slightly different shades and asking the public which they prefer.

More planting could be carried out, although some would be on private land so would require the owners’ permission.

Balfour Beatty says each measure alone would have a small impact but combined they would have a bigger effect and the benefit would be substantial and worthwhile.

The Goring RAG^▸ (Radstock Action Group) report similar proposals from a meeting with NR^» (Network Rail - home page) in September, which is cryptic but explains the bit about ATFs better:

    Series 1 Amended:
        Solid beam modification
        ATF options (all assume cropping masts to boom level)
            Vertical insulators
            Low-Level ATF
            Ground-level ATF
    Viaduct Portal as replacement for standard portal
    Viaduct Twin T as replacement for standard portal (review possible locations)
    Landscape-based Mitigations
    Colour (painting)
    Fencing
    Offsetting (Biodiversity/Landscape/Visual)

[JayMac]

The moaning Nimby brigade overlooking Herman's Hole just won't give up will they?

[Lee]

The moaning Nimby brigade overlooking Herman's Hole just won't give up will they?

They look quite a determined bunch to me...

[1st fan]

Last Saturday I walked up Eastbourne Terrace, something I haven't done in years, as usually when I leave Paddington it is by underground. Looking at the current outside state of the Crossrail station, and the works that were going on around it, I struggle to understand how it was thought until fairly recently that this could open next month.

I had a cab driver taking me to Paddington who asked which end I wanted which doesn't happen that often. I said I would have liked the Eastbourne Terrace entrance and he said so would he! For me it was the proximity to the 1st lounge and shops. For him the easier access from places that aren't served by the Westway and less competition. Said he'd heard rumblings (pun not intended) that crossrail was way behind schedule from passengers well before it was announced to the wider world.