Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Rhydgaled]

I still think we should get the gwml electrified sll the way to Swansea.

So do I, but I also still think we need a capacity intervention (either a new shorter and straighter GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) between Cardiff and Bridgend, effectively making it a 4-track railway, or some passenger loops AT STATIONS between Cardiff and Bridgend on the existing GWML to allow fast trains to overtake stoppers) first. While we are waiting for that we should get the GWML electrified to Bristol (the remodelling is done now) and possibly Oxford (depending on whether the planned remodelling would have a significant impact on the OHLE if the wires were done first).

[Bmblbzzz]

If any of the long campaigned for stations between Bristol and Chippenham (St Anne's, Saltford, Corsham) were to come into being after the electrification was done, would that be much more complicated than putting the stations in then the knitting?

[Electric train]

If any of the long campaigned for stations between Bristol and Chippenham (St Anne's, Saltford, Corsham) were to come into being after the electrification was done, would that be much more complicated than putting the stations in then the knitting?

No

[ellendune]

I still think we should get the gwml electrified sll the way to Swansea.

So do I, but I also still think we need a capacity intervention (either a new shorter and straighter GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) between Cardiff and Bridgend, effectively making it a 4-track railway, or some passenger loops AT STATIONS between Cardiff and Bridgend on the existing GWML to allow fast trains to overtake stoppers) first. While we are waiting for that we should get the GWML electrified to Bristol (the remodelling is done now) and possibly Oxford (depending on whether the planned remodelling would have a significant impact on the OHLE if the wires were done first).

But there are already two double track routes between Cardiff and Bridgend!

[Rhydgaled]

I still think we should get the gwml electrified sll the way to Swansea.

So do I, but I also still think we need a capacity intervention (either a new shorter and straighter GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) between Cardiff and Bridgend, effectively making it a 4-track railway, or some passenger loops AT STATIONS between Cardiff and Bridgend on the existing GWML to allow fast trains to overtake stoppers) first. While we are waiting for that we should get the GWML electrified to Bristol (the remodelling is done now) and possibly Oxford (depending on whether the planned remodelling would have a significant impact on the OHLE if the wires were done first).

But there are already two double track routes between Cardiff and Bridgend!

Yes, but one is already nearly full of local stopping trains and the other will be if and when the Maesteg service is increased as part of the Metro. Neither is any good for Welsh Government aspirations to reduce journey times from Cardiff to Swansea and Carmarthen, the latter of which (at least) will require additional services with fewer stops than current trains.

[onthecushions]

But can such verbing in English be Frenched?

My favourite French-ed  phrase is,

"Donnez moi une charcuterie..."

OTC

[TonyK]

But can such verbing in English be Frenched?

My favourite French-ed  phrase is,

"Donnez moi une charcuterie..."

OTC

Pour moi, it has to be Richie, from Catford, who told me to leave the shopping to him, as he had got the hang of the lingo.

"Hey, bonjers madam oyzil, avez vous, y'know, got any eggs, like?" He did the actions, and was offered a frozen chicken.

[patch38]

I just saw this news item on the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) website:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-59825606

It said further restrictions might be needed until the bridge "can be strengthened or replaced"

Replaced? A little ironic given all the previous fuss...?

[IndustryInsider]

Perhaps 125mph through Steventon on electric will happen after all then!

[Bmblbzzz]

TBH^▸ (to be honest) it's not a particularly distinguished looking bridge. I appreciate it's old and probably deserves listing for historic interest but there are many others like it.

[eightonedee]

Bearing in mind that the current crisis in Ukraine has resulted in calls for resilience in energy supply and accelerating the move away from fossil fuels, am I the only one who has noted that this has not (yet?) included any commitment to, or discussion of, accelerating electrification of the remainder of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) rail network?

And before more discussion of battery power, please bear in mind that Russia is one of the world's leading suppliers of nickel...........

[broadgage]

Electrification is expensive, calls for more research are cheaper and avoid doing anything much.

And as regards nickel prices and supplies, it would appear that a significant fraud has taken place. Nickle and other industrial metals are traded on the London Metals Exchange.

If I have understood correctly, a chinese speculator placed a huge "bet" that the price of nickel would fall. In fact the price increased very substantially, presumably driven by the war. The speculator was unable or unwilling to pay his losses, said to be in billions of dollars.

The party that stood to lose money, as a result of the speculator failing to honour his debts  is a major bank, and some reports state that losses are huge enough to impair the stability of that bank.

The exchange therefore closed for the day and ruled that all bets trades made that day were void, to protect the chinese speculator. The LME remains closed and is not expected to open today.

BTW^▸ (by the way), the London Metal Exchange is owned by china.

[TonyK]

Bearing in mind that the current crisis in Ukraine has resulted in calls for resilience in energy supply and accelerating the move away from fossil fuels, am I the only one who has noted that this has not (yet?) included any commitment to, or discussion of, accelerating electrification of the remainder of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) rail network?

And before more discussion of battery power, please bear in mind that Russia is one of the world's leading suppliers of nickel...........

Given that electrification on the almost two thirds of the railway still burning fossil fuel is something that the government could exert a positive influence on quickly, it seems odd that heels are being dragged. Not only would it reduce the emissions of the railway, it would show a willingness to do rather than promise to do, and provide a sound example to us all. It could be because the government knows, but hasn't said too loudly, that:

- it's very expensive
- it's not going to make any difference as the extra electric would have to be produced by coal
- no ministers own shares in any electrification company
- the Chinese don't want us to do it
- it would show up the battery and hydrogen ideas as useless, before they have dragged on in planning form for a few more years
- as broadgage says, doing more research is cheap and looks like something is happening, unless you used to watch Yes, Minister.

The party that stood to lose money, as a result of the speculator failing to honour his debts  is a major bank, and some reports state that losses are huge enough to impair the stability of that bank.

Reminds me of the time that chap lost his Barings.

[onthecushions]

They're not in our area or very immediate but there is still evidently life in electrification.

We won't know though until a working compound is cleared and fenced and pile drivers/augers start work at the lineside.

OTC


"Cheshire Lines and Rochdale electrification schemes (Option selection and design, early-mid 2020s; delivery late 2020s – early 2030s)

    Further electrification options to be investigated"

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/tfns-manchester-blueprint-sets-out-rail-upgrades-for-next-20-years-08-03-2022/

[onthecushions]

Another snippet (April MR^▸ (Midland Railway, or Motor Rail, depending on context) "informed Sources"):

"According to the press release announcing the scheme, ‘The upgrade project will provide 450 new overhead line equipment stanchions, and modifications to 17 bridges and two-level crossings’.

But, as we learned at the PWI Seminar, significant strides have been made in reducing electrical clearances at structures. According to Informed Sources, application of this engineering activity has resulted in a substantial reduction in the cost of electrification-related work in the Wigan-Bolton scheme. Without the reported 150% overhead on the actual project costs, the physical work on site, including those ‘modifications to 17 bridges’, came to around £30million.

Application of the new approaches to clearances, means that only one bridge will now require reconstruction for electrical clearance. Two more will need to be reconstructed because of condition. At a stroke, this has reduced the cost to under £15million, or around the £750,000/stkm, which the RIA study thought should be achievable on simple schemes."

The original bid accepted was IIRC^▸ ('if I recall/remember/read correctly') £78M, including 150% optimism bias, still apparently "justifiable financially". Might help us down here in the West if the out-turn is actually near the nett estimate.

OTC