Call for later service(s) from Bristol (and Bath) to Chippenham (and Swindon?)

[whole diary]

[Timmer]

I had noticed that there was a Frome terminator (from BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)?) around then, and couldn't discover where it then went....I assume Westbury?

Most likely, to join the other DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) that spend the night there ready for service the following morning.

[WSW Frome]

Frome and stations from BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) are indeed blessed to have the 23.20 running. It is largely used as a means to run several (15x) units to WSB^» (Westbury - next trains) ready for the morning services (presumably following servicing at St Philips Marsh). This large train returns to WSB ecs after arrival at Frome 00.18. The Sa times are slightly earlier and no Su version.

It is worth noting that this train nearly always runs even with engineering works planned. On occasions it will be timetabled to depart BRI at 22.55 and run early. A bus service is also provided to (try to) match the standard timings but of course takes considerably longer!

[ChrisB]

It wouldn't cost much to run it in passenger service all the way to WSB^» (Westbury - next trains).

[Timmer]

It wouldn't cost much to run it in passenger service all the way to WSB^» (Westbury - next trains).

It wouldn't but I don't think it would have much custom only going back as far as Westbury.

As an aside, does the 23.20 have a nickname amongst the staff/regular users?
Being the last train, particularly on a Saturday evening, taking home those customers who've had a nice evening out in Bath along with a few drinks. I know in the past it's been a late night target at Bath for the revenue protection team.

[WSW Frome]

I do not know of any nickname but conductors do remark that the service gets most "exciting" on a Friday evening and they do not welcome that particular roster.

[grahame]

Taking a further look ... a train at around 23:10 from Bristol via Bath and Chippenham to Swindon would arrive there at 23:55 ... returning at 00:06 it would connect off the final Swansea train (22:45 off Paddington) for Chippenham and stations to Westbury.   Running it only to Chippenham (23:45 to 23:51) would give a 22:15 connection off Paddington to Trowbridge and Westbury, where the last direct train from London is 20:35.

Carry on to London?  I don't know that there's much of a market east of Swindon either, and indeed in wouldn't need an HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s length at any point.  Wouldn't like to try it with a 153; I would predict "full, standing" or perhaps "full, falling over" for those under the influence!

[grahame]

Sharing some potential customer comments ...

This makes sense . For those of us who do not drive to Bristol, it opens up possibilities and is environmentally friendly.

This is a bit of a no-brainer isn't it?? Being able to have a night out, drink/enjoy yourself and get yourself home without the need for someone to drive!!! Give people an alternative and they'll use it!

Regular trips to Bath always have to be cut short

I have this problem too. I always say "Nope. Can't go to the 9PM showing at the odeon as there wouldn't be a train home until the next morning, or a bus until 3AM.

Difficult to have an evening out in bath with such early return trains

Fed up with late trains heading west but not east

I would like to be able to go for meals, cinema trips, hen parties etc. in Bath without the hassle and expense of driving and parking, then not being able to drink. I can't afford accommodation, or taxis all the way from Bath to Calne, so a late train would be fantastic.

There were times I got a taxi back to Swindon as it was cheaper than a hotel room in Bath.

Lived in Chippenham for 17 years and have always been amazed at how these Teain numpties have not worked out the money to be made from running later trains.

[ChrisB]

Frankly, they don't it....to much hassle for staff with the majority in some state. See comments elsewhere on the Frome late train from BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains).....

[stuving]

Last trains have got later in London, and also to some extent well outside TfL^» (Transport for London - about)'s idea of London. So on Waterloo-Reading the last train in 2000 on weekdays (+Saturday) was 22:54 ex Reading, and now there are 2:42, 23:12, then 23:52 Mon-Fri only to Ascot (but with no Earley/Winnersh calls). Sunday is still very like 2000.

From Waterloo it was 23:35 and now there are 23:20 and 23:50, and Sunday was 23:00 and is now 23:39. The new franchise SLC^▸ (Service Level Commitment) for Dec next year calls for last trains (presumably full route) from:

ex-	Mon-Fri	Sa	Sun
Waterloo	23:45	23:45	23:45
Reading	23:15	23:05	23:15

So that will be a little later from Reading; more so on Sunday. Note that Ascot train (which was otherwise ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock)) never was in an SLC, and most days there is a later GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) service but only Reading-Wokingham.

I don't think this trend towards a "more/24" lifestyle is confined to London, so later trains ought to appear elsewhere - though maybe not during the current performance of "waiting for goodies".

[ChrisB]

My point was that it win't appear voluntarily, but need putting in a future ITT^▸ (Invitation to Tender) for a new franchise.

[grahame]

Last trains have got later in London, and also to some extent well outside TfL^» (Transport for London - about)'s idea of London. So on Waterloo-Reading the last train in 2000 on weekdays (+Saturday) was 22:54 ex Reading, and now there are 2:42, 23:12, then 23:52 Mon-Fri only to Ascot (but with no Earley/Winnersh calls). Sunday is still very like 2000.

From Waterloo it was 23:35 and now there are 23:20 and 23:50, and Sunday was 23:00 and is now 23:39. The new franchise SLC^▸ (Service Level Commitment) for Dec next year calls for last trains ....

Yep, it's changing.     Should I get the pun about the last train to Earley being early in before someone else does?

I don't think this trend towards a "more/24" lifestyle is confined to London, so later trains ought to appear elsewhere - though maybe not during the current performance of "waiting for goodies".

I don't think it is limited to London;  noting the extra evening service to Barnstaple on (?) Friday and Saturday night, and the trains and buses from Bristol and Bath getting silly-busy not in mid evening, but in late evening.   Bit of a logistic / resources nightmare with public transport having a quieter period from around 8 p.m. for a couple of hours, though.

Very much brought home to me by long distance journeys home ... if I'm up north or in Scotland really late, I tend to end up on a Cross Country service coming into Bristol as its final run of the day.  Mouse quiet.   But then the scrum of the Frome train of which (regrettably) I have to finish with a taxi or calling in a favour of a lift.

[Bus Queen]

We are currently fighting to keep our evening week day  ( Mon - Thurs ) bus  service between Frome & Bath going. The original plan was to cut funding to any bus past 8pm.The cuts would affect 4 buses the 2010 & 2210 Frome to Bath & 2110 & 2310 Bath to Frome.  This would of left commuters, students etc  in our neighbouring villages cut of from their closest city and major hospital. Frome station is not ideally situated for most to use who don't drive they would have to factor in taxi fares to their journeys especially coming home at night.

The original plan by B&NES Council had to been to cut all funding to evening bus services on the Frome to Bath route past 8pm from  April. First bus found that they could operate the Friday & Saturday evening service commercially.  I pointed out to various Councils that the cuts would hit hairdressing & engineering students whose exams were in June - July. We managed to persuade various Councils & Parish Councils along with First bus who put up most of the funding to keep the bus running until September this year.  We have recently heard from First bus that this funding will continue until April 2018.

We are currently trying to think of ways to drive up trade on the Frome to Bath evening bus service any ideas would be much appreciated.

As most of you are train folk can you help with a few things
Can you use a young persons rail card before 9am
How much is a weekly & daily  students fare between Frome & Bath
How much is an Adults weekly & daily fare between Frome & Bath

[WSW Frome]

Grahame's proposal for a later train to SWI^» (Swindon - next trains)/WSB^» (Westbury - next trains) seems a very useful option and even the powers that be might take notice. At first sight it appears that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) would "only" need an additional crew.

Subject to capacity/demand questions, one or more of the 15x units currently used on the Frome service can be sent to SWI/WSB instead therefore providing two useful late night services serving much of the region, both from BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) and PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) areas.

[John R]

Taking a further look ... a train at around 23:10 from Bristol via Bath and Chippenham to Swindon would arrive there at 23:55 ... returning at 00:06 it would connect off the final Swansea train (22:45 off Paddington) for Chippenham and stations to Westbury.   Running it only to Chippenham (23:45 to 23:51) would give a 22:15 connection off Paddington to Trowbridge and Westbury, where the last direct train from London is 20:35.

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking of. The Chippenham turn around option has the disadvantage of not meeting bobm's theatre needs, and more seriously only gives Chippenham the benefit of an additional late train. Running to Swindon also gives another late option from PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) to CPM^» (Chippenham - next trains), as well as beyond to Westbury, so for the extra 30 mins of crew time, appears the better option.

[grahame]

1. Can you use a young persons rail card before 9am
2. How much is a weekly & daily  students fare between Frome & Bath
3. How much is an Adults weekly & daily fare between Frome & Bath

1. "Yes you can. However, for all journeys made between 4.30am and 10am Monday to Friday a minimum fare of £12 is payable. There is no minimum fare when you travel at weekends, on Public Holidays, or during July and August" ... Slightly confusing that - I believe the £12 minimum applies to the ticket as a whole, so it's a £12 return if you're headed out at 08:00 and back at 17:00.

2. and 3. Frome to Bath Rail fares are tabulates at www.brfares.com

To summarise in answer to your questions ... (from that site):


Child fares are from age 5 to 15; adult fares 16 and up.

QUESTION FOR OTHERS ... not sure of what happens for a season ticket held across someone's 16th birthday - is it age at purchase that counts?

Railcard discounts (and group saves) not valid on season tickets.

Longer period season tickets available - you can get anything from a month to a year.

Questions you didn't ask 

a ) On some lines such as Severn Beach there are arrangements with schools which are negotiated between community and rail industry via the Community Rail Partnership for student fares / tickets.  I'm not aware of any for Frome to Bath, but it's worth checking with Heart of Wessex - even if not set up, they ay want to take this forward.

b ) Similarly, zonal / range tickets, tickets that include buses and trains, part time seasons like they're using in Cornwall where you have a ticket for three weekdays plus the weekend - ideal for part time students.