Waterloo/SWT drastically reduced services August 2017

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

..........this may appear off topic but bear with me...........given the drastic reduction capacity in/out of Waterloo during August and the advice to pretty much steer clear if at all possible, what are GWRs^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s contingency plans in/out of  Paddington if (when) there are any severe disruptions as there has been in recent weeks?

Will customers still be encouraged to use SWT^▸ (South West Trains) services out of Waterloo as a fallback/alternative? Will ticket acceptance be in place in these circumstances?

The meltdown on 5th/6th July caused severe overcrowding at Waterloo with a full service running, the thought of a similar scenario with Paddington falling over doesn not bear thinking about and needs serious thought and planning, neither of which seem to be something GWR are very proficient at judging by recent performance.

 https://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/plan-your-journey/planned-improvements/wswupgrade/

[grahame]

..........this may appear off topic but bear with me...........given the drastic reduction capacity in/out of Waterloo during August and the advice to pretty much steer clear if at all possible, what are GWRs^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s contingency plans in/out of  Paddington if (when) there are any severe disruptions as there has been in recent weeks?

Will customers still be encouraged to use SWT^▸ (South West Trains) services out of Waterloo as a fallback/alternative? Will ticket acceptance be in place in these circumstances?

Don't know the answer, but Waterloo to Reading appears to remain at half hourly frequency all day at least on Mondays to Fridays.  As it's not the Windsor line platforms that are being shut for the period at Waterloo, are we looking at capacity restrictions that will be just to the south of anyone diverted from the main Paddington - Reading run onto Waterloo - Reading?

[IndustryInsider]

Marylebone is available as an alternative that wasn't so practical before the Oxford service was launched, and of course there's a marked reduction in numbers of travellers during August.  Other than that it will be 'fingers crossed' time I would imagine, as I can't see any sensible contingency that could be implemented in the case of a full lockdown at Paddington.

[TaplowGreen]

Marylebone is available as an alternative that wasn't so practical before the Oxford service was launched, and of course there's a marked reduction in numbers of travellers during August.  Other than that it will be 'fingers crossed' time I would imagine, as I can't see any sensible contingency that could be implemented in the case of a full lockdown at Paddington.

I think "fingers crossed" probably sums up the approach.

Equally I wouldn't be surprised if SWT^▸ (South West Trains) refuse the usual ticket acceptance on safety grounds if it means Waterloo gets in the same dangerous state as last time with a drastically reduced capacity this time around, with even its usual customers being advised to stay away if they can.

The Marylebone option is of some use but only for a very limited number of destinations - far fewer than the options given via Waterloo if worst comes to worst.

[IndustryInsider]

Can you think of anything they could sensibly do if no trains can leave Paddington?

Perhaps a fleet of 50+ coaches on standby every day near Paddington (or at another strategic location such as Heathrow or Uxbridge) just in case and a dozen or so agency staff to marshall passengers onto them?  Dread to think how much that would cost!

If Marylebone can cope with the number of passengers it is now a better or equally good option than Waterloo for Oxford, the Cotswolds, Didcot and any stations west thereof to Swindon, Bristol and South Wales.  That's quite a chunk of passengers.

[stuving]

Thre's a further interaction, in that SWT^▸ (South West Trains) are telling passenger from Reading this:

Great Western Railway will be accepting South West Trains ticket holders on services to London Paddington throughout this time.

Any passengers who usually travel from Reading to London Waterloo are strongly advised to travel with GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) into London Paddington.

So how's that going to work? It could be done for longer seasons (though a lot of people lapse theirs at holiday times), but the words don't say that. So what will the ticket offer at Reading be - will "via Staines" season tickets be priced as usual, but accepted vis Paddington? will they be issued as "any route"? Will the TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) be altered, or just have notices taped to them?

And why is thie same not being said to passengers from Earley and along the line? Come to that, if I read the those words I might well assume my "via Staines" ticked from  Wokingham will work via Reading-Paddington. So will it?

The point of the move is I think this: the Reading service will be close to its usual level, but other services are greatly reduced. So reading trains will have to take more passengers from closer in, so they are being "bribed" to use GWR. And I'd have thought it was worthwhile trying to offload Passengers from stations Earley-Bracknell as well.

[ChrisB]

With far longer journey times, even if advised you could travel via Reading, would you?....I think the vast majority wouldn't voluntarily add at least another 30nins to each journey they made.

[stuving]

With far longer journey times, even if advised you could travel via Reading, would you?....I think the vast majority wouldn't voluntarily add at least another 30nins to each journey they made.

Eh? It's quicker, in most cases, to Paddington than Waterloo even from Bracknell. That's why there's a more expensive ticket on sale, and they will sell you such an "any route" ticket from further in, with the price premium going up, as far as Ascot. Though it takes a little longer from there to Paddington, of course if you are going to near Paddington it might still be quicker door-door.

[insider]

..........this may appear off topic but bear with me...........given the drastic reduction capacity in/out of Waterloo during August and the advice to pretty much steer clear if at all possible, what are GWRs^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s contingency plans in/out of  Paddington if (when) there are any severe disruptions as there has been in recent weeks?

Will customers still be encouraged to use SWT^▸ (South West Trains) services out of Waterloo as a fallback/alternative? Will ticket acceptance be in place in these circumstances?

The meltdown on 5th/6th July caused severe overcrowding at Waterloo with a full service running, the thought of a similar scenario with Paddington falling over doesn not bear thinking about and needs serious thought and planning, neither of which seem to be something GWR are very proficient at judging by recent performance.

 https://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/plan-your-journey/planned-improvements/wswupgrade/

Just out of interest what do you think GWR should do? If the line is closed what do you expect? Its like saying what should BA^» (British Airways - about) do if Heathrow shuts the Runways? You have to go to another airport. They cant possibly move people by road safely when a London Terminus is shut without warning. All you can do is divert or advise those who can to postpone journeys. There are contingency plans in place for various line closures, but it is never as simple as just putting it into place. 

[stuving]

More on SWT^▸ (South West Trains) passengers using Paddington trains in August:

Reading is the only station I can find for which this option is mentioned specifically in the per-station "wswupgrade" web pages. That has the wording given in Sunday's post. There is another mention in the leaflet (affected stations and on-line):

Between 5 and 28 August, valid South West Trains tickets will be accepted on a range of other routes. If you are able to travel on a different route and avoid our busiest stations, you are strongly advised to do so.
Alternative routes into London
Valid South West Trains tickets will be accepted on reasonable routes by the following operators:
• Thameslink
• Southern
• Great Western Railway
For more detailed information, please visit www.southwesttrains.co.uk/wswupgrade

In those web pages, there is a link "Your ticket acceptance options", leading to a page starting:

We understand the works taking place between 5 and 28 August will have an impact on your journey. For some passengers this will mean significant changes and you may face queues outside stations, very busy trains and longer journeys.

In order to try and help reduce the impact we have arrange an extensive programme of ticket acceptance to help you to use a different route, at no extra cost.

Please consider these alternative options as you may have a better and more comfortable journey if you can avoid the railway which serves London Waterloo while this important upgrade work is carried out.

But what's listed is hardly extensive - and it is not even complete. And most of the acceptance options is gives onto GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are already available: for all journeys via Basingstoke for example. The only addition is for SWT (via Woking) tickets from Basingstoke itself. And yes - it doesn't mention tickets from Reading!

The sections about Thameslink and Southern are even less generous; listing existing cross-operator validities and adding just three cases where a nearby station on a different line can be used instead of one that's closed or not served. 

So, "extensive"?

[grahame]

But what's listed is hardly extensive - and it is not even complete. And most of the acceptance options is gives onto GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are already available: for all journeys via Basingstoke for example. The only addition is for SWT^▸ (South West Trains) (via Woking) tickets from Basingstoke itself. And yes - it doesn't mention tickets from Reading!

The sections about Thameslink and Southern are even less generous; listing existing cross-operator validities and adding just three cases where a nearby station on a different line can be used instead of one that's closed or not served. 

So, "extensive"?

May be not "extensive" or "generous" ... but is there much more they could offer?

[IndustryInsider]

And what exactly is a 'reasonable route'.  People have wildly different interpretations of what is reasonable yet it continues to be a term regularly used in such instances.

[stuving]

What's really odd is SWT^▸ (South West Trains) have written a page per station (even if it's 90% boilerplate), and another on ticket acceptance, and they don't agree. Wouldn't you expect them to?
The "your ticket acceptance options" page:

• does tell you about Basingstoke (nothing in its station page)
  
• does not tell you about Reading (explicitly offered in its station page)
• does remind you about validity from outside Basingstoke (nothing in their station pages)
• and similarly for the other ToCs.

Incidentally, SWT are running an hourly service between Reading and Salisbury - one to watch out for. Some of the trains are going a bit further; Gillingham, Honiton, Pen Mill or even Exeter. RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) is showing the service trains, though the platform allocations are not plausible and/or the ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) moves are missing.

As to what is a reasonable route - that's exactly what the "more information" should cover and largely doesn't.  Since they sell tickets from e.g. Wokingham via Reading to Paddington (though officially called "any route"), I reckon that makes that a reasonable route by definition. It ordinarily costs more but there's nothing in the words about a "reasonable cost". And anyway, who'd pay? Given that the franchise runs out on the 19th ...

Could they do more? On this GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) side not much, apart from trying to get people to switch. As it is there are actually more trains (well, one more) than usual from Reading/Wokingham in he morning peak, but  fewer back in the evening.

If you close a lot of terminus, what you need is somewhere else to run to or a place to swap trains halfway (and not at Clapham, ideally). I'm sure more of that could have been done, though the current state of London Bridge doesn't help. And of course a lot of the alternatives, planned and just always there, involve Southern ... but there's not a lot SWT or NR^» (Network Rail - home page) can do about that.

[grahame]

Incidentally, SWT^▸ (South West Trains) are running an hourly service between Reading and Salisbury - one to watch out for. Some of the trains are going a bit further; Gillingham, Honiton, Pen Mill or even Exeter. RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) is showing the service trains, though the platform allocations are not plausible and/or the ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) moves are missing.

It'll be interesting to see what the stock allocation is too, and whether we see anything different to normal.

[stuving]

Incidentally, SWT^▸ (South West Trains) are running an hourly service between Reading and Salisbury - one to watch out for. Some of the trains are going a bit further; Gillingham, Honiton, Pen Mill or even Exeter. RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) is showing the service trains, though the platform allocations are not plausible and/or the ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) moves are missing.

It'll be interesting to see what the stock allocation is too, and whether we see anything different to normal.

Unlikely. The per-station information explains that these are trains that usually go to Waterloo, diverted for the duration. In practice the Exeter trains still go there, it's the other ones that end up at Reading. Hence the pathing as Class 159.