Not able to get on the train

[whole diary]

[bruce]

hi all
just looking for info on fgw and found this site and was wondering if there was any body here who could help.
i live in gosport and took my wife and 4 month old baby girl down to see her family in plymouth last thursday. the train from portsmouth to westbury wasnt too bad but then we had to find space on the westbury to plymouth train, i saw a space in the buffet car and quced to get on, a dispatch guard said we would better further along so we followed him and got on the train to find he had put us in a door way with nowhere to move to. when we got the the next station we moved to buffet car where i was planning to go and all was fine until my baby filled her nappy and i went to look for and changing room. what a surpize when i found there werent any when i said this to the guard him said " you aer right there isnt any this is the second train train i have been on today that hasnt" not much help to me. i had to change her nappy while she was in her pram as there were no seats in the buffet car.  i could have complained to the staff when i go to plymouth but i just wanted to get my family to my inlaws and settled down.

then we came to the return trip.
plymouth to westbury was great, lovely train loads of room. then we got to westbury and saw the crowd waiting for the porstmouth train. this is going to be fun i said. when the train came in it was only two cars and standing room only.
there was another girl and a pram waiting to get on standing waiting to talk to the staion manager.
i asked him how was i suppose to get on the train and he said "you cant thats the risk you take to see if there is room". i came back with even if i could get on where would i put the pram, he said "there isnt anywhere to put it".
i then asked him if the next train was likey to be the same and he said "yes we only run two cars on sundays". i said then how am i suppose to get my family home he said "just wait to see if there is any room you might be able to push in".
there were able 30 people who couldnt get on that train how many would be waiting for the next one??
i then tried a different apoatch. i said to him that i had a seat booked on that train (which i did) and how was i going to get it, he said "that dosent mean anything it dosnt mean you will get a seat" surly that is why you book a seat i said "doent mean anything" he said.
by this time i was a bit p***ed off and said well how do i have to complain to he said he would get me a form "for all the good it will do you"
i decided to get a taxi home as i couldnt wait around allnight on the of chance that we might be able to get on a train and the fact the the toleits were closed so i could sort my baby out and asked him were they were "down there" he replied down where i dont live here " down the stairs and there should be one"
we when downstairs and luckly there was a portsmouth taxi there who had dropped of a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) guard who had missed his train. it cost ^140 to get my family home.

we are writing letters to FGW and to keiven gale who is the trains director for FGW and also to the portsmouth News and the plymouth herald. can any body give me some advice as to where i stand?

many thanks   

[grahame]

Hi, Bruce ... welcome to the forum.

In general, I'm afraid you'll find that you have only limited redress - train operating companies are not required to provide services that everyone who turns up and wants to use them can actually fit onto, but rather services to a specification that's laid down as part of their franchise - and that's (I'm afraid to say) 2 car trains on Cardiff - Portsmouth.  Under the previous operator, 3 car trains were operated on the route as the number of customers who wished to travel exceeded the capacity of the 2 car units for much of the day, but when their competitor bid to take the service over they relied on old figures for traffic levels and government forecasts of growth that was less taht a tenth of what actually happened.

The question on reserved seats is an interest one - not sure of the compensation / status if you've bought reserved seats on a train (which implies you have space thereon) but can't get to them due to crowds.  Can anyone else answer on that?

[swlines]

When you buy a train ticket, you enter a contract for the railway to transport you from A to B, they do not guarantee a seat. As far as I'm aware, if you have a seat reservation, it is purely complimentary and is not guaranteed to be available. I can't remember whether it has been changed but AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) you have up to 8 minutes from the departure of the train from your reservation origin station, before it can be taken by someone else officially.

[Timmer]

i asked him how was i suppose to get on the train and he said "you cant thats the risk you take to see if there is room". i came back with even if i could get on where would i put the pram, he said "there isnt anywhere to put it".
i then asked him if the next train was likey to be the same and he said "yes we only run two cars on sundays". i said then how am i suppose to get my family home he said "just wait to see if there is any room you might be able to push in".
there were able 30 people who couldnt get on that train how many would be waiting for the next one??

Hi Bruce and welcome to the forum. I'm sorry to hear you had such a poor journey home yesterday but sadly thats the way things are on the Cardiff-Portsmouth route right now. Groups like MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain) raise attention to problems with Mon-Fri  services used by commuters but no one highlights the problems of extreme overcrowding at weekends on this line with passengers often being left behind at stations.

Its ridiculous that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) don't run more than two cars on Sundays when there is spare stock sitting idle in sidings not being used. Yes I'm aware that there has to be a time for maintainance to take place but that doesn't mean every spare unit needs to be held back. I can understand them not having enough stock during the week with the intense timetable being operated but there is no excuse for that on Sundays. Just needs some sensible diagramming to ensure the stock is in the right place come Monday morning.

[tonya]

We'll raise your journey with Andrew Haines, CEO^▸ (Chief Executive Officer) of first when we see him in a couple of weeks . Weekend trains are often far more overcrowded than weekday trains, and your experience occurs with regularity on Saturdays and Sundays. This is simply becasue FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is saving money. They have the extra rolling stock parked up to make longer trains in the week, but choose not to use it.
Tony, More Trains Less Strain

[swlines]

2 158s are parked up on Sunday mornings in Weymouth - excellent use of stock there ... there from Saturday night til 1400 at Weymouth, could probably be put to better use on the Cardiff to Portsmouth route. Although running an additional Westbury to Southampton Central then running ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) to Weymouth might be a good idea, I doubt FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would play ball with that what with route knowledge.

And Tony, there isn't that much rolling stock spare, a few more extra on SPM^▸ (St Philip's Marsh (Bristol depot)) for maintenance and perhaps another spare at Westbury or something similar to that is probably all that is available... unless you have evidence showing otherwise?

[Graz]

Welcome to the forum Bruce, sorry to hear of your experience. It's safe to say the Portsmouth-Cardiff trains on a Sunday are something of a lottery with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and most of us on the forum have had their fair share of being in packed coaches or even denied access to trains. Hopefully you might get some compensation vouchers back from FGW, but unfourtunately I would doubt they would refund the taxi fare.

Your best bet should you need to travel again would be to try and use South West Trains to Plymouth via the  Salisbury - Axminster - Exeter route. Try and avoid FGW as much as you can on a sunday.

[Topham Hatt]

If you have a reservation and don't get a seat (either the reserved seat or another one) FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s passenger charter says they will refund the full cost of the single journey.

[Shazz]

Hi, Bruce ... welcome to the forum.

In general, I'm afraid you'll find that you have only limited redress - train operating companies are not required to provide services that everyone who turns up and wants to use them can actually fit onto, but rather services to a specification that's laid down as part of their franchise - and that's (I'm afraid to say) 2 car trains on Cardiff - Portsmouth.  Under the previous operator, 3 car trains were operated on the route as the number of customers who wished to travel exceeded the capacity of the 2 car units for much of the day, but when their competitor bid to take the service over they relied on old figures for traffic levels and government forecasts of growth that was less taht a tenth of what actually happened.

The question on reserved seats is an interest one - not sure of the compensation / status if you've bought reserved seats on a train (which implies you have space thereon) but can't get to them due to crowds.  Can anyone else answer on that?

Theres a ^50 fine for anyone who refuses to move from your seat iirc, so if you have one booked, and get on. It's all yours.

[dog box]

We'll raise your journey with Andrew Haines, CEO^▸ (Chief Executive Officer) of first when we see him in a couple of weeks . Weekend trains are often far more overcrowded than weekday trains, and your experience occurs with regularity on Saturdays and Sundays. This is simply becasue FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is saving money. They have the extra rolling stock parked up to make longer trains in the week, but choose not to use it.
Tony, More Trains Less Strain

As Swlines asks prehaps you can give us all some facts as to where this extra stock is parked up to ?,why its there?how long it stays there etc.
because saving money and choosing not to use it. mean absolutely nothing unless you can actually provide hard facts and evidence to substantiate your claims

[Conner]

Hi, Bruce ... welcome to the forum.

In general, I'm afraid you'll find that you have only limited redress - train operating companies are not required to provide services that everyone who turns up and wants to use them can actually fit onto, but rather services to a specification that's laid down as part of their franchise - and that's (I'm afraid to say) 2 car trains on Cardiff - Portsmouth.  Under the previous operator, 3 car trains were operated on the route as the number of customers who wished to travel exceeded the capacity of the 2 car units for much of the day, but when their competitor bid to take the service over they relied on old figures for traffic levels and government forecasts of growth that was less taht a tenth of what actually happened.

The question on reserved seats is an interest one - not sure of the compensation / status if you've bought reserved seats on a train (which implies you have space thereon) but can't get to them due to crowds.  Can anyone else answer on that?

Theres a ^50 fine for anyone who refuses to move from your seat iirc, so if you have one booked, and get on. It's all yours.

Yeh if the ticket is put on the seat, which on Portsmouth-Cardiff trains they largely aren't. Then I don't think the reservation stands.

[devon_metro]

The fact that you could not use your reserved seat is ridiculous! Personally I would have demanded to sit down in it as I have some paper telling me its mine!

[Jez]

Hi, Bruce ... welcome to the forum.

In general, I'm afraid you'll find that you have only limited redress - train operating companies are not required to provide services that everyone who turns up and wants to use them can actually fit onto, but rather services to a specification that's laid down as part of their franchise - and that's (I'm afraid to say) 2 car trains on Cardiff - Portsmouth.  Under the previous operator, 3 car trains were operated on the route as the number of customers who wished to travel exceeded the capacity of the 2 car units for much of the day, but when their competitor bid to take the service over they relied on old figures for traffic levels and government forecasts of growth that was less taht a tenth of what actually happened.

The question on reserved seats is an interest one - not sure of the compensation / status if you've bought reserved seats on a train (which implies you have space thereon) but can't get to them due to crowds.  Can anyone else answer on that?

Theres a ^50 fine for anyone who refuses to move from your seat iirc, so if you have one booked, and get on. It's all yours.

Yeh if the ticket is put on the seat, which on Portsmouth-Cardiff trains they largely aren't. Then I don't think the reservation stands.

Surely it should still stand as you have a ticket reservation given to you when you book your tickets.

[Conner]

Hi, Bruce ... welcome to the forum.

In general, I'm afraid you'll find that you have only limited redress - train operating companies are not required to provide services that everyone who turns up and wants to use them can actually fit onto, but rather services to a specification that's laid down as part of their franchise - and that's (I'm afraid to say) 2 car trains on Cardiff - Portsmouth.  Under the previous operator, 3 car trains were operated on the route as the number of customers who wished to travel exceeded the capacity of the 2 car units for much of the day, but when their competitor bid to take the service over they relied on old figures for traffic levels and government forecasts of growth that was less taht a tenth of what actually happened.

The question on reserved seats is an interest one - not sure of the compensation / status if you've bought reserved seats on a train (which implies you have space thereon) but can't get to them due to crowds.  Can anyone else answer on that?

Theres a ^50 fine for anyone who refuses to move from your seat iirc, so if you have one booked, and get on. It's all yours.

Yeh if the ticket is put on the seat, which on Portsmouth-Cardiff trains they largely aren't. Then I don't think the reservation stands.

Surely it should still stand as you have a ticket reservation given to you when you book your tickets.

When the Resrvation Ticket printer has broken down before the screens read No Seat Reservations Available and onboard they tell you that there are no reservations and to sit everywhere.

[Timmer]

The fact that you could not use your reserved seat is ridiculous! Personally I would have demanded to sit down in it as I have some paper telling me its mine!

Reserving seats on Cardiff-Portsmouth trains at the moment is a pointless exercise. If there is a seat you sit in it so you can allow others to actually get on the train. You probably have little chance of getting anywhere near your reserved seat anyway as no one can move its so rammed full.