Well would you believe it PART 2

[whole diary]

[mada]

This is why we should have an English parliament. Currently a larger percentage of British taxes are spent per head on the Welsh and Scottish than the English. Personally I think power should be devolved to English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish parliaments with the issues which effect us all such as health and defence being dealt with at a UK^▸ (United Kingdom) level. You could also do away with the house of Lords and have the UK parliament performing that role for the local ones and vice versa. Everything would be more democratic and issues such as transport in England would be dealt with more fairly in the same way as in Wales.

[Shazz]

The reason i think they're not investing in new stock yet, is that they want to wait for etrms to hit the valleys, so they dont have to make 2 investments, plus they can double the number of trains running at the same time. So the potential is there for a huge investment in stock come then, so someone will be raking it in for a stock order.

come the final roll out (2018 for the valleys if the trial goes to plan? same year as they want to replace the pacers etc)

In a way, i can see the sence in doing it this way, as the amount of stock they need to replace is a vast amount, across the whole atw network.

Plus queen street really needs to be 5 platforms, not the 3 it currently is if growth  continues at this rate.

[Lee]

The DafT specified how many units the franchise needed in their greatest hour of wisdom and therefore it was not necessary for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to renew the lease on 8 150s...

The DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) didnt specify how many units the franchise needed but the SRA^» (Strategic Rail Authority - about) did strongly hint in the Invitation To Tender. They did this by listing the amount of units (broken down by class) that SRA/Jacobs research indicated were required.

Therefore you could argue that the bidders took their lead from that.

However, we know from FOI^▸ (Freedom of Information) disclosures that the final decision to go with 2-coach rather than 3-coach Class 158 units was based on a detailed comparison of then-current loadings mapped onto the new December 2006 service pattern conducted by FGW. The benefits were seen to be capacity on key services and performance (avoidance of cancellations, standbys at strategic locations, fleet cycling etc.) It was described as "a vast improvement on what was originally proposed."

There would obviously be cause for debate as to whether they reached the correct conclusion.....

It should also be noted, though, that people like Andrew Griffiths realised that there would still be some very busy trains, which is why they pressed for extra HST^▸ (High Speed Train) stops to be made at local stations during the peaks.

This was found to be more difficult than first thought to implement at locations such as Keynsham and Oldfield Park.

I would argue that the above is relevant, given that the proposed transfer of Class 150 units from ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) is meant to unlock the potential for 3-coach Class 158 units to be created.

[DanielP]

Great news for FGW^▸ (First Great Western)! Congrats, you are pretty much back to where you were when Wessex had the franchise!! The Govt have got a real cheek making FGW pay for this recovery plan though.

I can't possibly see that Arriva will give up the 150s without being compensated. I would guess that the compensation will have to be a deal with 180s. Also, as it says that the new stock will arrive in Summer 08, is there not a chance that the other stock may be used with a little clever jiggery pokery? I think it will be one of the biggest railway scandals of recent years if a company is divested of stock required to run an enhanced service after millions of pounds have been spent on platform extensions + train repaints and alterations!

I suppose that the other alternative is that WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) will pay FGW to run say, the Vale of Glamorgan or Maesteg service as an extension of one of their Cardiff routes with the additional stock they have and that Arriva will not longer require the extra units.........that would mean that FGW would have an extra income stream to help pay for the rescue plan??

This is pretty tense!

Daniel

[Lee]

I suppose that the other alternative is that WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) will pay FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to run say, the Vale of Glamorgan or Maesteg service as an extension of one of their Cardiff routes with the additional stock they have and that Arriva will not longer require the extra units.........that would mean that FGW would have an extra income stream to help pay for the rescue plan??

There is a relevant priced option in the Franchise Agreement :

1. EXTENSION OF PORTSMOUTH-CARDIFF SERVICES TO SERVE CARDIFF AIRPORT

Description, Objective and Specification.

1.1 This is a Priced Option to change the Service Level Commitment to amend the SLC2 by extending the current Portsmouth to Cardiff Central Service to Rhoose station with effect from the Timetable Change Date in December 2006, with the extension to be funded by the Welsh Assembly Government (WAG) through a separate funding agreement to be entered into between the Secretary of State and WAG.

1.2 Where this Priced Option is called after the signature of the Franchise Agreement, it is conditional on the Franchisee being able to secure before the date of the Timetable Conference in February 2006 an option to an additional Class 158 unit at the price specified in the Financial Model, unless the Secretary of State agrees to fund any incremental price (which will in turn be funded by WAG).

1.3 If the Secretary of State elects to call this Priced Option, he shall attach to the written notice he serves pursuant to paragraph 2 of Schedule 3 (Priced Options) of the Terms, a Service Level Commitment that takes account of the extension of the current Portsmouth to Cardiff Central Service to Rhoose station with effect from the Timetable Change Date in December 2006.

1.6 Provided the Secretary of State has called this Priced Option by the 31 January 2006, the Franchisee shall procure that this Priced Option is implemented on and from the Timetable Change Date in December 2006.

1.9 The Secretary of State may call this Priced Option up to and including 31 January 2006.

[DanielP]

I know ;-)

The V0G bit even got into a draft timetable- I have it on my laptop at home. However, they would need to go on to Bridgend as well. In fact, if there has been some co-operation here, the service could be operated by existing Arriva mainline staff. At present, the crew changes at Cardiff with VL staff leaving and main-line staff taking the train onto Bridgend.

The only thing that would worry me is that if the route is tacked onto the end of a longer route, the quality of service would go down the pan and cancellations would occur. Unless, there was a huge wad of slack stuck in the timetable (like the Maesteg service, that dwells at Cardiff for ages).

This idea popped into my mind because I have recently met with the ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) franchise manager. He totally blanked me re: the 5x 150 unit transfers (what a suprise), but took a great deal time explaining that WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) pay for the trains on the VoG and that Arriva simply crew them- he also pointed out that WAG could arrange for any TOC to run it. When I mentioned that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) had the VoG route in a draft timetable, he look suprised that I knew this and commented that this might still be rumbling about.

This is purely speculation, but this could be another option to the rolling stock issue. This would mean that WAG would have shiney refurbed 3 coach 158s or 150s running out to Cardiff airport. This would mean that no Welsh taxpayer's money has been wasted too!!

I don't think we have heard the last of this one folks! As I commute on this route, I may have to face the fact that I am turning purple (arrrgh!).

Daniel

[vacman]

The DafT specified how many units the franchise needed in their greatest hour of wisdom and therefore it was not necessary for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to renew the lease on 8 150s...

I'd say as nice as more 158s would be, we aren't going to get any wheras we were going to get some 150s but apparantly not until 2010 so we will continue to suffer. 

Why should FGW buy new trains anyway when they will loose the franchise in a few years time anyway. If the DafT really cared they wouldn't simply throw around stupid insult at FGW when THEY ARE the problem, instead they would tackle the route problem and build some bloody trains and not stand around chatting about it all bloody year 

Other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) have, and do...

It's not like first have 3 franchises that could use new stock if they decided to become a rosco as well, and buy there own stock. And could even lease them to whoever gets the franchise come the end of the current one. And i'm sure the competition comission would welcome another rosco to sort out the stupidly high prices some trains cost to lease.

Yes, but other TOC's don't have to pay ^1bn to the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport)! Oh, and I think a tongue in cheek "told you so" is in order, my source is very reliable 

[Lee]

Oh, and I think a tongue in cheek "told you so" is in order, my source is very reliable 

I did think of you earlier.....

Hats off to vacman for the prediction

[Shazz]

The DafT specified how many units the franchise needed in their greatest hour of wisdom and therefore it was not necessary for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to renew the lease on 8 150s...

I'd say as nice as more 158s would be, we aren't going to get any wheras we were going to get some 150s but apparantly not until 2010 so we will continue to suffer. 

Why should FGW buy new trains anyway when they will loose the franchise in a few years time anyway. If the DafT really cared they wouldn't simply throw around stupid insult at FGW when THEY ARE the problem, instead they would tackle the route problem and build some bloody trains and not stand around chatting about it all bloody year 

Other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) have, and do...

It's not like first have 3 franchises that could use new stock if they decided to become a rosco as well, and buy there own stock. And could even lease them to whoever gets the franchise come the end of the current one. And i'm sure the competition comission would welcome another rosco to sort out the stupidly high prices some trains cost to lease.

Yes, but other TOC's don't have to pay ^1bn to the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport)! Oh, and I think a tongue in cheek "told you so" is in order, my source is very reliable 

I thought these still hadnt gone anywhere due to the daft blocking it?

[Lee]

I thought these still hadnt gone anywhere due to the daft blocking it?

See link below.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1862.msg13465#msg13465

[Shazz]

I thought these still hadnt gone anywhere due to the daft blocking it?

See link below.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1862.msg13465#msg13465

still, says nothing of the 150s, it mentions new leases on 5 3 cars for the ports>cardiff

oh, and MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain) need to learn the difference between turnover and operating profit.

I do agree with danielp though, ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)))/ the WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) will probably seek some sort of compensation package if it does happen.

EDIT: Just saw the fgw link, the bbc do like to be sketchy with there news, cant wait to see what the WAG think of this next time they're in session.

[vacman]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have clearly stated that they are to recieve 5 class 150 units in their press release. Trust me, it's going to happen!

[DanielP]

From those who know, are the ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)))-FGW^▸ (First Great Western) stock transfers back on then? If so when. When I went by Canton this morning, there were 3x Anglia liveried sprinters in the yard + about four other ex-Centrals that have been repainted......

Arriva are still very quiet!!!!

Daniel

[12hoursunday]

From those who know, are the ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)))-FGW^▸ (First Great Western) stock transfers back on then? If so when. When I went by Canton this morning, there were 3x Anglia liveried sprinters in the yard + about four other ex-Centrals that have been repainted......

Arriva are still very quiet!!!!

Daniel

The sets due to be transfered were with ATW but old stock used by Anglia!

[DanielP]

Cheers....I know which, but not when!!

Daniel