"Shortage of train crew"

[whole diary]

[old original]

I know everyone's circumstances are different, but I know if I was on £45k+ a year for a 35ish hour week I wouldn't lift my head off my pillow on a Sunday...  (for overtime that is)

[grahame]

Indeed, it'll either get covered by increased fares (remival if the super off-peak, anyone?) - so by the likely users of weekend services (not sure it would seem to be fair to load it onto commuter peak fares), or by taxpayers with a lower take from franchise payments.

The extended logic of that is to split the paying the staff spread across the passengers on a train.  So travellers on busy trains would pay less each, an on quiet trains the price would be higher.

[broadgage]

As I have said previously, the answer IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) is to require that all NEW staff work Sundays as needed up to a maximum of say 20 Sundays a year.
There is nothing inherently unreasonable about NEW staff being subject to this requirement provided that it be made clear during the initial application for the job.

I feel that it is unreasonable to force EXISTING employees to work Sundays if this was not a requirement when they joined.

There would still be a requirement for some volunteer Sunday working for some years, but at least it would be a steadily reducing requirement rather than an ongoing and perhaps worsening situation.

The trades unions would probably oppose the idea though.

[John R]

Another option would be to offer those approaching retirement a reduced hours option - say the equivalent of 2 or 3 days a week, but again a degree of Sunday working would be a requirement. People of that age will probably be less concerned about working weekends as their family will not be constrained by the working (and school) week. It might also help the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) by giving them more flexibility, and for the staff concerned would be a good transition from employed to retired.  i.e. if some drivers feel a full working week is getting too tiring, they could still earn some income.

[ChrisB]

As I have said previously, the answer IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) is to require that all NEW staff work Sundays as needed up to a maximum of say 20 Sundays a year.
There is nothing inherently unreasonable about NEW staff being subject to this requirement provided that it be made clear during the initial application for the job.

I feel that it is unreasonable to force EXISTING employees to work Sundays if this was not a requirement when they joined.

There would still be a requirement for some volunteer Sunday working for some years, but at least it would be a steadily reducing requirement rather than an ongoing and perhaps worsening situation.

The trades unions would probably oppose the idea though.

This. To include staff changing jobs/companies too.

[Bmblbzzz]

Went to see a friend in Stroud yesterday. While I was there another friend arrived, having taken the train up from Exeter, and said the train was delayed because there was no driver. I don't know any details though.

[eightf48544]

I think it's called Work Life balance and it's been around a long time.

Ive been trying to find evidence of story about Lord Robens when he was chairman of the Caol Board talking to a, I think, yorkshire miner. Asked why he didn't work Monday replied something to the effect, "because I can't earn enough money NOT working Tuesday". That guy seems to have got his work life balance sorted but if I remember correctly the right wing press was outraged calling miners lazy and overpaid. Seems drivers are now in the same happy position.

If i was still working on 45K I'd be in full agreement with oldoriginal about getting out of bed on a Sunday.

I think if we want decent services, 24/7, we are going to have to  employ more workers plus pay them more  which means we will have to pay more for them of at time of using them or if publicly funded  (NHS) pay  more tax or a combination of both.

[ChrisB]

S'ok.....all new drivers taken on have contracts to include Sunday rosters within their working week, thus once the current drivers retire the new ones become very flexible....thus fewer drivers then needed, and those extras only required for a few years.

[IndustryInsider]

S'ok.....all new drivers taken on have contracts to include Sunday rosters within their working week, thus once the current drivers retire the new ones become very flexible....thus fewer drivers then needed, and those extras only required for a few years.

That is the suggestion that Broadgage made above, but I can quite categorically state that's not the case within GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) currently.

A few TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s do have Sunday's within the working week, Virgin West Coast for example, with the driver's base line salary bumped up several thousand pounds to compensate.  GWR has a mixture of drivers who can opt out of Sunday's with no penalty as long as they give 5 days notice, and others that are required to work unless their shift can be covered by somebody else - though that 'requirement' to work is a huge grey area as they are additional hours on top of their 35-hour week roster with no sick pay paid.  Some just don't turn up or go sick and there's very little the company can do about it.

[LiskeardRich]

West drivers who joined since 2003 all have Sunday workings and have to arrange their own cover for it off.
West drivers from before 2003, HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) and LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) drivers are Sundays opt out with a weeks notice..
West crew I believe to be optional Sundays.

[TaplowGreen]

S'ok.....all new drivers taken on have contracts to include Sunday rosters within their working week, thus once the current drivers retire the new ones become very flexible....thus fewer drivers then needed, and those extras only required for a few years.

That is the suggestion that Broadgage made above, but I can quite categorically state that's not the case within GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) currently.

A few TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s do have Sunday's within the working week, Virgin West Coast for example, with the driver's base line salary bumped up several thousand pounds to compensate.  GWR has a mixture of drivers who can opt out of Sunday's with no penalty as long as they give 5 days notice, and others that are required to work unless their shift can be covered by somebody else - though that 'requirement' to work is a huge grey area as they are additional hours on top of their 35-hour week roster with no sick pay paid.  Some just don't turn up or go sick and there's very little the company can do about it.

I'm not sure how it works on the railways, but everywhere I've ever worked if you "just don't turn up" without good reason it's a disciplinary matter, and repeated sickness absences are covered by specific procedures which can ultimately lead to dismissal too.

If Managers lack the ability or motivation to apply these processes then they are failing as Managers and that might explain why people get away with it.

I expect fear of the Unions plays a part, but if processes are followed correctly there is nothing to fear, and I speak as someone who has gone down this route with individuals in highly unionised public sector environments.

[IndustryInsider]

West drivers who joined since 2003 all have Sunday workings and have to arrange their own cover for it off.
West drivers from before 2003, HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) and LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) drivers are Sundays opt out with a weeks notice..
West crew I believe to be optional Sundays.

That's not quite how it is.  Paddington LTV can opt out with a week's notice (I thought that was all staff not just pre-2003 but happy to be corrected), Oxford have to get cover regardless of when they started.  As I said though 'have to get cover' in all probability isn't legally binding as I'll try to explain below. 

I'm not sure how it works on the railways, but everywhere I've ever worked if you "just don't turn up" without good reason it's a disciplinary matter, and repeated sickness absences are covered by specific procedures which can ultimately lead to dismissal too.

If Managers lack the ability or motivation to apply these processes then they are failing as Managers and that might explain why people get away with it.

I expect fear of the Unions plays a part, but if processes are followed correctly there is nothing to fear, and I speak as someone who has gone down this route with individuals in highly unionised public sector environments.

A Sunday (for all drivers on LTV and HSS - I'm not 100% sure about West, but think it is for them too) remains in addition to their working week.  Sundays do form part of their roster but not part of their 35-hour week which is usually normalised over an 8 week period.

If a driver wishes to give up their Sunday and they can't just opt-out, for example an Oxford LTV driver, they try and find cover themselves from another volunteer.  If that doesn't happen then the rostering department will try and cover it (potentially from another depot). 

If that doesn't happen they are supposed to work, but this is where the grey area is.  Because it is an additional shift it is very different from a normal rostered days work.  If you don't turn up on a normal rostered day of the week then that is quite rightly worked through the sickness and attendance procedure by their manager, known as MfA.  Much more rigorously than many organisations do I can tell you, given the impact regular sickness can have compared with other businesses!

Sundays however are different in two key areas.  1) You don't get paid sick pay if you go sick, 2) You can't book a Sunday off as part of your annual holiday entitlement to be guaranteed it off.  Those two differences and the fact it's an additional shift mean that AFAIUI there is very little the company can do!

Though it has to be said, the main reason for shortages are for those depots that retain the opt-out clause (half of drivers are probably pre-2003 at most depots) and no mention of that changing that was made as part of the recent IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) package.  Though I certainly accept it will slowly get better over time, it is still going to be a problem for many years.

[a-driver]

We are massively overstaffed with drivers were I am based and I think the same can be said for a lot of other depots on the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) network.  Once all the new traction training is complete I think the company will be in a position to include Sunday's in the working week or else they will look at redundancies.  That's only my guess.  Some drivers may decide they don't want to learn new traction and opt to take retirement.  Sunday's within the working week is something the company wants but there's a few drivers who oppose the idea.

[TaplowGreen]

We are massively overstaffed with drivers were I am based and I think the same can be said for a lot of other depots on the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) network.  Once all the new traction training is complete I think the company will be in a position to include Sunday's in the working week or else they will look at redundancies.  That's only my guess.  Some drivers may decide they don't want to learn new traction and opt to take retirement.  Sunday's within the working week is something the company wants but there's a few drivers who oppose the idea.

That'll sort out the "ooooooos gunna pay for it?" brigade then, some of the money saved on making all those surplus drivers redundant/giving them early retirement can be diverted into paying the remaining drivers a bit more to work on Sundays as part of the working week...........and just think of all that additional fare revenue with a more reliable, strengthened service! 

[grahame]

... just think of all that additional fare revenue with a more reliable ... service! 

Yep ....