Buffets...

[whole diary]

[John R]

I'm also surprised that if the decision has been made to keep all the buffet cars that this wasn't added on to the "^29m announcement".

[Phil]

Today, we had a "brassiere" as well as a buffet ( at least, I think that's what they said) on the 8:25 from Chippenham to Paddington.

Undecided whether to order a bacon buttie or a bacon, egg, sausage and mushroom baguette, I decided to try and save three quid by splitting the difference and ordering a bacon and mushroom buttie. This however wasn't listed on the menu. I could have one or the other. The fact that the latter actually involved mushrooms, and therefore presumably they had some in stock, was neither here nor there: I wasn't allowed to deviate from the strict confines of the items listed on the menu.

[willc]

When I were younger, in the 1970s, HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) had Buffet cars AND restaurant cars. As I recall 2 + 9 was the original formation - 2 firsts, 1 buffet, 1 restaurant and 5 second class.

The original Western Region fleet in 1976 was a 2+7 formation - many of the stop markers survive at short platform stations to this day, with 2+8 added later beyond them. The sets had 2 firsts, 1 buffet-second or buffet-restaurant and 4 seconds. They got an extra second class coach in the 1980s.

The initial Eastern and Scottish Region sets were delivered as 2+8, with 2 firsts, a restaurant-kitchen, 4 second opens and a buffet-second, but it was very soon realised this was overkill in terms of catering provision (and probably a staffing nightmare too) and the restaurant-kitchens were given buffet counters, with an extra second class coach provided in place of the buffet-seconds, which were used instead in newly-built sets for cross-country services, which always ran as 2+7 sets, of one first, one buffet-second and 5 second class.

Regular 2+9 operation only began in recent years when GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) extended its HSTs with an extra second class coach.

[Timmer]

The original Western Region fleet in 1976 was a 2+7 formation - many of the stop markers survive at short platform stations to this day, with 2+8 added later beyond them. The sets had 2 firsts, 1 buffet-second or buffet-restaurant and 4 seconds. They got an extra second class coach in the 1980s.

The initial Eastern and Scottish Region sets were delivered as 2+8, with 2 firsts, a restaurant-kitchen, 4 second opens and a buffet-second, but it was very soon realised this was overkill in terms of catering provision (and probably a staffing nightmare too) and the restaurant-kitchens were given buffet counters, with an extra second class coach provided in place of the buffet-seconds, which were used instead in newly-built sets for cross-country services, which always ran as 2+7 sets, of one first, one buffet-second and 5 second class.

Regular 2+9 operation only began in recent years when GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) extended its HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) with an extra second class coach.

Thanks for this summary willc. I had often wondered what had happened to the extra buffet-seconds that used to run on the East Coast.

[John R]

I presume there will be a number of buffets available from the EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) Mainline HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) services???

Not if today's news on another forum is to be believed - that EMT told their staff today that the buffets are staying (though bizarrely will be used to provide at seat service for 1st, and to provide trolley support for standard, with no counter service - doh!)

[Btline]

When I were younger, in the 1970s, HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) had Buffet cars AND restaurant cars. As I recall 2 + 9 was the original formation - 2 firsts, 1 buffet, 1 restaurant and 5 second class.

The original Western Region fleet in 1976 was a 2+7 formation - many of the stop markers survive at short platform stations to this day, with 2+8 added later beyond them. The sets had 2 firsts, 1 buffet-second or buffet-restaurant and 4 seconds. They got an extra second class coach in the 1980s.

The initial Eastern and Scottish Region sets were delivered as 2+8, with 2 firsts, a restaurant-kitchen, 4 second opens and a buffet-second, but it was very soon realised this was overkill in terms of catering provision (and probably a staffing nightmare too) and the restaurant-kitchens were given buffet counters, with an extra second class coach provided in place of the buffet-seconds, which were used instead in newly-built sets for cross-country services, which always ran as 2+7 sets, of one first, one buffet-second and 5 second class.

Regular 2+9 operation only began in recent years when GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) extended its HSTs with an extra second class coach.

Thanks Willc for that summary!