Blooming ridiculous!

[whole diary]

[Shazz]

Its interesting to note that the late night services to Portsmouth don't call at Cosham anyway, is this because FGW^▸ (First Great Western) expect trouble or the demand isn't there? They say the stop for Bradford-on-Avon is to provide extra capacity, but its always a Wedge-ex by then anyway so how does it help!

They were removed by Wessex because there was trouble with local youths (antisocial behaviour, fare dodging etc.) The DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) didnt include them in the Greater Western Franchise specification, therefore FGW are not obliged to provide them.

I use the Portsmouth-Cardiff services on a regular basis from this station, and believe me, the demand is definately there!

If I was proposing a timetable, I would say Cosham, Romsey, Warminster, Bradford-on-Avon and Filton Abbey Wood do not really need the current service they get.

I disagree with you, and I strongly suspect that I would be far from the only one.

Filton gets what, coming up to half a million passenger journeys a year? (making it the 3rd most used station in bristol?_

I can think of a number of stations with less passengers than that, that have a better service...

And as iirc it was the MOD who funded the station (almost in its entireity?) so there workers could commute in from across the country. I'm sure they'd have something to say about it.

[spike]

I seem to remember that it wasn't that long ago (2004 or 2005?) under Wessex trains that the hourly Portsmouth - Cardiff train had different stops between Salisbury and Bristol depending on which hour it was, some wouldn't stop at Westbury, some wouldn't stop at Warminster etc.

As a current user of the line, I'd probably say the timetable is about right - Bradford on Avon is a tricky one as it probably doesn't need the service it gets currently, but then if it stays long enough it'll probably develop quite nicely. Plus timings have only changed by a minute, so it was probably quite slack before. Romsey gets an amazing service now for the size of the town it is!

[Lee]

As a current user of the line, I'd probably say the timetable is about right - Bradford on Avon is a tricky one as it probably doesn't need the service it gets currently, but then if it stays long enough it'll probably develop quite nicely. Plus timings have only changed by a minute, so it was probably quite slack before. Romsey gets an amazing service now for the size of the town it is!

From what Ive seen so far, the new Portsmouth-Cardiff stop at Bradford-on-Avon is proving popular enough to justify retention. Also, I cant see the West Wiltshire Rail Users Group giving it up without a hell of a fight.

As for Romsey and Warminster, Portsmouth-Cardiff provides the only regular service to far afield that these stations get. A decent enough amount of passengers always seem to be waiting for the train there, and both towns are likely to significantly grow in the coming years.

[thefab442]

I'm not suggesting we turn any of the stations I mentioned into Melkshams or Beaulieu Roads, I'm proposing that a number of services do not stop there. To begn with, is there enough demand from east of Westbury to Filton Abbey Wood to justify an hourly service outside of peak hours? Romsey under my plans would continue receiving the hourly service it currently enjoys, but would be a slightly slower service. Warminster would only loose out every other hour when the Portsmouth service does not stop but there is still an hourly service from Southampton/Bristol, likewise with Cosham which would receive roughly an hourly service (semi-fast from Portsmouth plus the Brighton services). Bradford-on-Avon is the only station that truly looses out with my proposals, but they are only going back to the service available post December 07 (?) or whenever stops were introduced on the Portsmouth - Cardiff trains.

Of course, with all "good plans" I expect my service would require quite a bit of extra stock. I would suggest hiring two sets of Mark 2s and top 'n' tail 47/67s at least until more 158s can be got.

I shall attempt to produce an example timetable, attempting to create a fully clockface timetable for the line, although I'd like to keep 2R99 if possible as that's rather a good service (albeit a 153)!

[devon_metro]

Ah - JDS has seen the light, people like clockface!

The extra Portsmouth stops were useful when I was last at Bradford on Avon and there is a smashing fish and chips shop so allows half an hour to grab lunch

[Lee]

I'm not suggesting we turn any of the stations I mentioned into Melkshams or Beaulieu Roads, I'm proposing that a number of services do not stop there. To begn with, is there enough demand from east of Westbury to Filton Abbey Wood to justify an hourly service outside of peak hours? Romsey under my plans would continue receiving the hourly service it currently enjoys, but would be a slightly slower service. Warminster would only loose out every other hour when the Portsmouth service does not stop but there is still an hourly service from Southampton/Bristol, likewise with Cosham which would receive roughly an hourly service (semi-fast from Portsmouth plus the Brighton services). Bradford-on-Avon is the only station that truly looses out with my proposals, but they are only going back to the service available post December 07 (?) or whenever stops were introduced on the Portsmouth - Cardiff trains.

Of course, with all "good plans" I expect my service would require quite a bit of extra stock. I would suggest hiring two sets of Mark 2s and top 'n' tail 47/67s at least until more 158s can be got.

I shall attempt to produce an example timetable, attempting to create a fully clockface timetable for the line, although I'd like to keep 2R99 if possible as that's rather a good service (albeit a 153)!

I shall genuinely look forward to reading it. Your posts have certainly given us at CANBER^▸ (Campaign Against the New Beeching Report) towers something to talk about this afternoon.

For comparison purposes, I would put forward Stage Two of my West Fleet plan (link below.)
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1407.msg8181#msg8181

Probably worth giving an update on this - since the plan was written, the following has changed.

STAGE ONE

- The 3 Class 142 units that were identified as being in storage are now back on-lease (length of lease unknown.)

- Questions have been raised as to the viability of running services with loco-hauled stock.

STAGE TWO

- The DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) appear to have rather overlooked the area in question when it comes to new-build trains (link below.)
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1583.msg10354#msg10354

As a result, I am looking to make some alterations. This means that I am genuinely interested in the timetable proposals currently being put forward by forum members.

The extra Portsmouth stops were useful when I was last at Bradford on Avon and there is a smashing fish and chips shop so allows half an hour to grab lunch

Tried it, and it is very good 

[Btline]

Right, lets axe Filton Abbey Wood!
Is it not only a few yards away from parkway?So how can it be well used? Or am I wrong (if I am, then I'll lower the axe!!!) ?


Overall, demand for local travel has gone up, so at least some Cardiff - Pompey services need to call at most stops.

But I agree with the idea of a fast train. It is the same with the Cotswold Line. More fast services need to be brought in for long distance commuters/travellers. These relieve pressure on local services which can pick up locals- also less pressure to cut calls to speed up journey times.

[Phil]

Right, lets axe Filton Abbey Wood!
Is it not only a few yards away from parkway?So how can it be well used? Or am I wrong (if I am, then I'll lower the axe!!!) ?

It's 25 minutes walk - I've done it.

[Jim]

I won't lie, but I know quite a few crews who found Cosham a backside to stop at after about 19.00

[Btline]

Right, lets axe Filton Abbey Wood!
Is it not only a few yards away from parkway?So how can it be well used? Or am I wrong (if I am, then I'll lower the axe!!!) ?

It's 25 minutes walk - I've done it.

Maybe, but when you look at this map:

http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=362000&Y=180000&width=700&height=400&gride=358989.579039313&gridn=173096.200014968&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=true&zm=0&scale=25000&down.x=277&down.y=4

You start to wonder....

Ok- it's a mile, but still........

[Lee]

Right, lets axe Filton Abbey Wood!
Is it not only a few yards away from parkway?So how can it be well used? Or am I wrong (if I am, then I'll lower the axe!!!) ?

See quotes below :

There's a fair old number of Ministry of Defence staff living in the Bradford on Avon/Bath area who would be seriously inconvenienced by the removal of commuter trains to Filton Abbey Wood as well - particularly since the MoD helped fund the station when they compulsorily moved thousands of staff out from London and Bath to Filton a few years ago (along with Andover more recently). Some of those staff will be transferring to the new build MoD HQ^▸ (Headquarters) at Corsham in 2010, which will probably re-ignite some interesting debates about the reopening of Corsham (nb not Cosham) station then as well.

Filton gets what, coming up to half a million passenger journeys a year? (making it the 3rd most used station in bristol?_

I can think of a number of stations with less passengers than that, that have a better service...

And as iirc it was the MOD who funded the station (almost in its entireity?) so there workers could commute in from across the country. I'm sure they'd have something to say about it.

For many, many reasons, you wont be seeing the back of that particular station any time soon.

But I agree with the idea of a fast train. It is the same with the Cotswold Line. More fast services need to be brought in for long distance commuters/travellers. These relieve pressure on local services which can pick up locals- also less pressure to cut calls to speed up journey times.

As I said earlier in the topic, I prefer the service pattern set down in Stage Two of my West Fleet plan, but am quite happy to consider detailed proposals put forward by others.

I won't lie, but I know quite a few crews who found Cosham a backside to stop at after about 19.00

Wont disagree with you there, and all I am asking is that at least the existing calls are kept.

[Jez]

I'm not sure really, one thing that pisses me off about FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is the consistent adding of stops! Why do Portsmouth services stop at Bradford-on-Avon - its always packed by then anyway! Similarily why do they stop at Filton Abbey Wood or Cosham? Next thing will be all Portsmouth trains stopping at Keynsham, or Swanwick!

It would be a lot better if all services out of Salisbury were under the control of one operator,

I think adding Bradford on Avon had something to do with the removal of the Cardiff-Westbury service (with an extension to Weymouth every 2 hours) and reverting to the old Cardiff-Taunton service.

How long before they add Keysham, Oldfield Park and Avoncliff on the Cardiff-Portsmouth service.

Also I remember this train used to call at STJ^▸ (Severn Tunnel Junction railway station) at one point instead of Filton. Surely there are plenty of other trains that call at Filton.

[Lee]

I'm not sure really, one thing that pisses me off about FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is the consistent adding of stops! Why do Portsmouth services stop at Bradford-on-Avon - its always packed by then anyway! Similarily why do they stop at Filton Abbey Wood or Cosham? Next thing will be all Portsmouth trains stopping at Keynsham, or Swanwick!

It would be a lot better if all services out of Salisbury were under the control of one operator,

I think adding Bradford on Avon had something to do with the removal of the Cardiff-Westbury service (with an extension to Weymouth every 2 hours) and reverting to the old Cardiff-Taunton service.

How long before they add Keysham, Oldfield Park and Avoncliff on the Cardiff-Portsmouth service.

Also I remember this train used to call at STJ^▸ (Severn Tunnel Junction railway station) at one point instead of Filton. Surely there are plenty of other trains that call at Filton.

It still gave a significant increase in Bradford-on-Avon services that is likely to prove justified and difficult to remove in the face of likely opposition.

For what its worth, I dont think that Keynsham, Oldfield Park and Avoncliff will be added to the off-peak Cardiff-Portsmouth service any time soon.

As for Filton, plenty of supporting points have been raised in this topic for those calls.

[tramway]

Trowbridge is IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) the 4th busiest station on the Portsmouth/Cardiff route, 543,800 for 05/06.

I would say that current usage at Filton is no longer dominated by MoD traffic, I^m sure Filton College and Bristol Poly (oops UWE) would also be inconvenienced were the service there were to be reduced, and I regularly see Filton Sports students travelling from Trowbridge.

I believe that the Filton build was by no means assured and was hotly disputed, it doesn^t bare thinking about if all the current Filton traffic had to be funnelled through Parkway.

For what its worth, I dont think that Keynsham, Oldfield Park and Avoncliff will be added to the off-peak Cardiff-Portsmouth service any time soon.

They are already on the 0600 Portsmouth working, that's one of my biggest gripes about the timetable, there is no semi fast 'From' Trowbridge in the morning, unlike the return. Trowbridge/Filton takes just over 60 minutes until the 1014 service, return PM and its just over 40 minutes, surely the same traffic flows apply. 

40 minutes matches some of the better car journeys to North Bristol and I know of a number of people who do drive because of the 1hr journey time. How a 50% increase in journey time going in a different direction can be justified beats me.

[Lee]

For what its worth, I dont think that Keynsham, Oldfield Park and Avoncliff will be added to the off-peak Cardiff-Portsmouth service any time soon.

They are already on the 0600 Portsmouth working, that's one of my biggest gripes about the timetable, there is no semi fast 'From' Trowbridge in the morning, unlike the return. Trowbridge/Filton takes just over 60 minutes until the 1014 service, return PM and its just over 40 minutes, surely the same traffic flows apply. 

40 minutes matches some of the better car journeys to North Bristol and I know of a number of people who do drive because of the 1hr journey time. How a 50% increase in journey time going in a different direction can be justified beats me.

Thats a Greater Bristol peak, rather than off-peak service, and whatever the view of forum members, I think that trade-off examples like that are always going to be around for us to debate.

I still dont think that Keynsham, Oldfield Park and Avoncliff will be added to the off-peak Cardiff-Portsmouth service any time soon.