Blooming ridiculous!

[whole diary]

[thefab442]

Suprisingly, this is not a moan about the lack of carriages on a GW^▸ (Great Western) service! Well it kinder is...

I was coming back from a bash to Bristol Parkway, on the 1O99 1131 Cheltenham Spa - Brighton, and stopped off at Trowbridge to do a quick M&S rush and catch the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) service on to Salisbury. I was rather suprised when this rolled in formed of a pair of 158s. Anyway, I got a carriage to myself from Westbury onwards and on arrival into Salisbury the guard comes on with "The next stop is Salisbury, where this train will attach to a further 3 carriages for the onward journey to Basingstoke". Bearing in mind this service, the 1O50 1310 off Bristol Temple Meads, does not usually join up at Salisbury and runs through to Waterloo stopping at stations Salisbury - Basingstoke, the addition of extra coaches is a bit of an overkill (especially as it was only going to Basingstoke).

Is it only me who feels the best thing for the Pompey - Cardiff line would be a transfer to SWT? SWT could inherit, say, 6 158s from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (including 158798 which could become 159109), and we'd actually have a potentially decent service! What also was quite interesting was how empty the 1310 was, considering alot of people on the outward journey were talking about how they "get the South West back because you get a seat", are these services not advertised or is it that they run at inconvient times?

[Chris from Nailsea]

Hi, thefab442, and welcome to this forum!

You have posed some very interesting questions there ... to which I personally do not have any answers (but I'm just a 'west of Bristol commuter!).

However, knowing the breadth of expertise of our members, I'm sure you will soon see lots of responses to your post!

Best wishes,

Chris.

[thefab442]

Hey, I've been browsing about for a bit, but decided to post tonight!


Thank god SWT^▸ (South West Trains)/DafT didn't take out the Bristol services, as it's getting to the point where it'll just be Waterloo - Exeter, what with the removal of the Coastway - Paignton trains! I swear SWT said they would keep these but curtail the one from Brighton to Portsmouth & Southsea!

[devon_metro]

Welcome, Mr JDS.

I'm wandering how SWT^▸ (South West Trains) would cope without some of their 158 fleet, as currently 2 units are at EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) - Theres always loads of 159s spare so we would probably be able to take 4 158s.

Its not that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) provide a bad service and SWT would, its simply that FGW have not much stock whilst SWT have far too much!

[thefab442]

I'm not sure really, one thing that pisses me off about FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is the consistent adding of stops! Why do Portsmouth services stop at Bradford-on-Avon - its always packed by then anyway! Similarily why do they stop at Filton Abbey Wood or Cosham? Next thing will be all Portsmouth trains stopping at Keynsham, or Swanwick!

It would be a lot better if all services out of Salisbury were under the control of one operator,

[devon_metro]

Then surely you could argue the same thing at Bristol TM^‡(resolve), Bath, Westbury etc with the off SWT^▸ (South West Trains) exception!?

[John R]

I'm not sure really, one thing that pisses me off about FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is the consistent adding of stops! Why do Portsmouth services stop at Bradford-on-Avon - its always packed by then anyway! Similarily why do they stop at Filton Abbey Wood or Cosham? Next thing will be all Portsmouth trains stopping at Keynsham, or Swanwick!

It would be a lot better if all services out of Salisbury were under the control of one operator,

This annoys me too. As I've intimated elswehere there is surely enough demand now to reinstate a truly fast Cardiff Portsmouth service, with intermediate stations being served by an hourly Bristol Soton service.   

[Lee]

I'm not sure really, one thing that pisses me off about FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is the consistent adding of stops! Why do Portsmouth services stop at Bradford-on-Avon - its always packed by then anyway! Similarily why do they stop at Filton Abbey Wood or Cosham? Next thing will be all Portsmouth trains stopping at Keynsham, or Swanwick!

It would be a lot better if all services out of Salisbury were under the control of one operator,

This annoys me too. As I've intimated elswehere there is surely enough demand now to reinstate a truly fast Cardiff Portsmouth service, with intermediate stations being served by an hourly Bristol Soton service.   

Oi, Cosham is my local station!!! Even without that caveat, there is a decent amount of passengers who would be inconvenienced by the removal of this stop.

[Phil]

There's a fair old number of Ministry of Defence staff living in the Bradford on Avon/Bath area who would be seriously inconvenienced by the removal of commuter trains to Filton Abbey Wood as well - particularly since the MoD helped fund the station when they compulsorily moved thousands of staff out from London and Bath to Filton a few years ago (along with Andover more recently). Some of those staff will be transferring to the new build MoD HQ^▸ (Headquarters) at Corsham in 2010, which will probably re-ignite some interesting debates about the reopening of Corsham (nb not Cosham) station then as well.

[John R]

That's the problem. Having gradually added more stops, there would then be an outcry when stops are taken away to create a truly fast service. But if Wessex felt 3 cars were needed back in 2004, then by 2009 with 6% growth pa (=33% in total), that will mean 4 coaches are needed. But instead of 4 coaches, revert to 2 x 2 car sets. One of these sets covers the existing calling pattern, but the second forms the fast service. Lee, if the stopping service terminated at Soton then clearly the fast would continue to make existing calls onward to Portsmouth.

Maybe I'm just nostalgic for the days when a Class 33 took me from Cardiff to Soton Uni, calling only at Newport, BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)), Bath and Salisbury, but I do think that the main centres of population deserve a faster service than they currently get.       

[Lee]

That's the problem. Having gradually added more stops, there would then be an outcry when stops are taken away to create a truly fast service. But if Wessex felt 3 cars were needed back in 2004, then by 2009 with 6% growth pa (=33% in total), that will mean 4 coaches are needed. But instead of 4 coaches, revert to 2 x 2 car sets. One of these sets covers the existing calling pattern, but the second forms the fast service. Lee, if the stopping service terminated at Soton then clearly the fast would continue to make existing calls onward to Portsmouth.

Maybe I'm just nostalgic for the days when a Class 33 took me from Cardiff to Soton Uni, calling only at Newport, BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)), Bath and Salisbury, but I do think that the main centres of population deserve a faster service than they currently get.       

As you know, I do like to get out and about as easily as possible  (all current circumstances permitting...)
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1592.msg10419#msg10419

I do remember the 33's from when I was a kid, and I distinctly remember one of my friends referring to the then-new Sprinters as "spaceships."

Perhaps a case of over-enthusiasm on his part, but they did look somewhat futuristic compared to the other rolling stock we had in the Portsmouth area at the time.

I also recall that stops at (say) Fratton and Trowbridge were by no means universal, and missing either station out now seems almost unthinkable.

[thefab442]

Yes, its rather disheartening to go onto that Announcement Archives site and hear things like:

"The Sprinter Express service to Swansea will leave from Platform 4. Calling at Romsey, Salisbury, Warminster, Westbury, Bath Spa, Bristol Temple Meads, Newport, Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Port Talbot, Neath and Swansea". (Southampton Central)

"Platform 2 for the Sprinter Express service to Cardiff Central. Calling at Fareham, Southampton, Salisbury, Bath Spa, Bristol Temple Meads, Newport and Cardiff Central." (Havant)


If I was proposing a timetable, I would say Cosham, Romsey, Warminster, Bradford-on-Avon and Filton Abbey Wood do not really need the current service they get. With the idea of an hourly Soton - Bristol slow, Portsmouth - Cardiff fast and the token Brighton - Cheltenham services, we could have the following calling pattern:

Southampton Central - Bristol Temple Meads, calling at Romsey, Salisbury, Warminster, Dilton Marsh, Westbury, Trowbridge, Bradford-on-Avon, Bath Spa, Oldfield Park, Keynsham and Bristol Temple Meads.'

Then the fast service would have alternating timetables, odd hours fast, even hours semi-fast:

Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff Central fast, calling at Portsmouth & Southsea, Fratton, Fareham, Southampton Central, Salisbury, Westbury, Trowbridge, Bath Spa, Bristol Temple Meads, Newport and Cardiff Central.

Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff Central semi-fast, calling at Portsmouth & Southsea, Fratton, Cosham, Fareham, Southampton Central, Salisbury, Warminster, Westbury, Trowbridge, Bath Spa, Bristol Temple Meads, Newport, Filton Abbey Wood and Cardiff Central.

Brighton - Cheltenham Spa additional, calling at Hove, Shoreham-by-Sea, Worthing, Barnham, Chichester, Havant, Cosham, Fareham, Southampton Central, Romsey, Salisbury, Warminster, Westbury, Trowbridge, Bradford-on-Avon, Avoncliff, Freshford, Bath Spa, Bristol Temple Meads, Filton Abbey Wood, Bristol Parkway, Yate, Cam & Dursley, Gloucester and Cheltenham Spa.


Its interesting to note that the late night services to Portsmouth don't call at Cosham anyway, is this because FGW^▸ (First Great Western) expect trouble or the demand isn't there? They say the stop for Bradford-on-Avon is to provide extra capacity, but its always a Wedge-ex by then anyway so how does it help!

[Doctor Gideon Ceefax]

Yes, its rather disheartening to go onto that Announcement Archives site and hear things like:

"The Sprinter Express service to Swansea will leave from Platform 4. Calling at Romsey, Salisbury, Warminster, Westbury, Bath Spa, Bristol Temple Meads, Newport, Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Port Talbot, Neath and Swansea". (Southampton Central)

"Platform 2 for the Sprinter Express service to Cardiff Central. Calling at Fareham, Southampton, Salisbury, Bath Spa, Bristol Temple Meads, Newport and Cardiff Central." (Havant)

Where is this site? A search on google for "Announcement Archives" or "British Rail Announcements" and similar doesn't turn up anything, and I'm too lazy to try any other combinations!

[swlines]

I'm wandering how SWT^▸ (South West Trains) would cope without some of their 158 fleet, as currently 2 units are at EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) - Theres always loads of 159s spare so we would probably be able to take 4 158s.

Yes, a huge 2 159s are spare per day at the moment!   

The 158s are only at EMT because they're not needed until 10 coach peak services Salisbury to London come in.

[Lee]

Its interesting to note that the late night services to Portsmouth don't call at Cosham anyway, is this because FGW^▸ (First Great Western) expect trouble or the demand isn't there? They say the stop for Bradford-on-Avon is to provide extra capacity, but its always a Wedge-ex by then anyway so how does it help!

They were removed by Wessex because there was trouble with local youths (antisocial behaviour, fare dodging etc.) The DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) didnt include them in the Greater Western Franchise specification, therefore FGW are not obliged to provide them.

I use the Portsmouth-Cardiff services on a regular basis from this station, and believe me, the demand is definately there!

If I was proposing a timetable, I would say Cosham, Romsey, Warminster, Bradford-on-Avon and Filton Abbey Wood do not really need the current service they get.

I disagree with you, and I strongly suspect that I would be far from the only one.