Cutdown 125's to operate Penzance to Plymouth clockface service

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

Not nevessarily canned, just not enough hood coaches for both Scotrail (who will get priority) and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).

And your source for that?

[JayMac]

They have started, haven't they?

They have. With posts on other forums from engineering staff suggesting the work continues apace.

[LiskeardRich]

Short formed HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units))'s operating on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) won't be happening due to the condition of the MkIII's.

Rumour rather than any official confirmation from the very limited look around I've done.   Of course rumours do have a habit of turning out to be true sometimes!

Hypothetical ... if true, a real spanner in the work of the plans as we know them, but (as someone commented the other day) there should be contingency plans in place.  We may see class 230 and 319 flex, and I'm not sure that all of the 153s going off lease are spoken for. When are the Mk4s being released from the East Coast, and would they fit between class 43s - they are newer and already have plug doors; if no-one else wants them ...

Does seem very strange since there is the big piece in the current Modern Railways and a lot of people who should know about this sort of thing have been very positive about the idea for a long time now.   I think the original poster needs to go back to whoever told him/her that the short formed HSTs wouldn't be happening.

In term of plug doors and the toilets, they are cutting the old ones off and adding new - evidently this is easiest and the ends are where there is most corrosion.   

They are chopping the ends off where the corrosion is, and rebuilding the ends. thus the worst of the corrosion should be removed anyway.
Saying that I know one of the sleeper carriage upgrades was stopped as they found it to be so bad.

Ps RichardB hope you enjoyed your trip on the step entrance Dennis Dart on Sunday

[ChrisB]

Not nevessarily canned, just not enough hood coaches for both Scotrail (who will get priority) and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).

And your source for that?

"Not necessarily"...is key. No source needed

[LiskeardRich]

On rail forums there are 2 engineers both saying they are still happening as of yesterday.
Drivers are posting there they are cancelled.
Mess room gossip?
The cross country set is first in line at the works.
They wouldn't know if there was adequate good sets until they are examined for the work. Only the sets already at the work have been examined so far for the work

[JayMac]

Not nevessarily canned, just not enough hood coaches for both Scotrail (who will get priority) and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).

And your source for that?

"Not necessarily"...is key. No source needed

Your post read as if you knew the work was now only being done to Mk3's destined for ScotRail. You should make it clear you are guessing.

Elsewhere there continue to be posts pouring cold water on what has been said here by a-driver. Posts from engineering staff at Wabtec. Posts from GWR depot staff. And posts saying timetable planners and depot resource staff are still expecting it to happen.

What we have is a lone voice saying it's not happening, versus many voices who've heard the conversion work continues.

Not a peep from the rail press either. Not in publications, nor from individual contributors on social media. In fact, one publication carries a feature on the conversion work in its latest edition.

They could all be wrong of course and one driver may have got a scoop. But that scoop needs to be backed up with much more information. A one line post on two forums doesn't sell it for me.

[chrisr_75]

Calm down! No one is suggesting the work is stopping. Just that it may be that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) might not be getting these trains. Just a rumour at present from someone in a position closer to the horses mouth than most on this forum. I'm sure it will be confirmed one way or t'other in due course, no need to be so defensive.

It could very well be that on closer examination that corrosion on some of these coaches is bad enough that they cannot be converted - as they're a monocoque design it won't take an awful lot to render them unsuitable for significant repairs, with the possible result that insufficient 'good' coaches are available to cover the original plan.

[RichardB]

Short formed HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units))'s operating on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) won't be happening due to the condition of the MkIII's.

Rumour rather than any official confirmation from the very limited look around I've done.   Of course rumours do have a habit of turning out to be true sometimes!

Hypothetical ... if true, a real spanner in the work of the plans as we know them, but (as someone commented the other day) there should be contingency plans in place.  We may see class 230 and 319 flex, and I'm not sure that all of the 153s going off lease are spoken for. When are the Mk4s being released from the East Coast, and would they fit between class 43s - they are newer and already have plug doors; if no-one else wants them ...

Does seem very strange since there is the big piece in the current Modern Railways and a lot of people who should know about this sort of thing have been very positive about the idea for a long time now.   I think the original poster needs to go back to whoever told him/her that the short formed HSTs wouldn't be happening.

In term of plug doors and the toilets, they are cutting the old ones off and adding new - evidently this is easiest and the ends are where there is most corrosion.   

They are chopping the ends off where the corrosion is, and rebuilding the ends. thus the worst of the corrosion should be removed anyway.
Saying that I know one of the sleeper carriage upgrades was stopped as they found it to be so bad.

Ps RichardB hope you enjoyed your trip on the step entrance Dennis Dart on Sunday

Thanks Richard.  Yes, I certainly did.  Sorry I didn't say hello.  After the trip back from the Plym Valley, I did the Sir Francis Drake on a lovely trip round the Hoe, down Royal Parade, round the Hoe again and over to the Royal William Yard.  I thought it was a great event.

On the subject of the shortformed HSTs, of course it would leave a big hole in GWR's rolling stock plans if they were to prove to be not feasible.   We all know what the railway grapevine is like - sometimes it is right, other times wrong.  My money is on wrong this time. 

[LiskeardRich]

Short formed HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units))'s operating on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) won't be happening due to the condition of the MkIII's.

Rumour rather than any official confirmation from the very limited look around I've done.   Of course rumours do have a habit of turning out to be true sometimes!

Hypothetical ... if true, a real spanner in the work of the plans as we know them, but (as someone commented the other day) there should be contingency plans in place.  We may see class 230 and 319 flex, and I'm not sure that all of the 153s going off lease are spoken for. When are the Mk4s being released from the East Coast, and would they fit between class 43s - they are newer and already have plug doors; if no-one else wants them ...

Does seem very strange since there is the big piece in the current Modern Railways and a lot of people who should know about this sort of thing have been very positive about the idea for a long time now.   I think the original poster needs to go back to whoever told him/her that the short formed HSTs wouldn't be happening.

In term of plug doors and the toilets, they are cutting the old ones off and adding new - evidently this is easiest and the ends are where there is most corrosion.   

They are chopping the ends off where the corrosion is, and rebuilding the ends. thus the worst of the corrosion should be removed anyway.
Saying that I know one of the sleeper carriage upgrades was stopped as they found it to be so bad.

Ps RichardB hope you enjoyed your trip on the step entrance Dennis Dart on Sunday

Thanks Richard.  Yes, I certainly did.  Sorry I didn't say hello.  After the trip back from the Plym Valley, I did the Sir Francis Drake on a lovely trip round the Hoe, down Royal Parade, round the Hoe again and over to the Royal William Yard.  I thought it was a great event.

On the subject of the shortformed HSTs, of course it would leave a big hole in GWR's rolling stock plans if they were to prove to be not feasible.   We all know what the railway grapevine is like - sometimes it is right, other times wrong.  My money is on wrong this time. 

The chap I was with is another Forum member Palfers, although he doesn't appear to have posted in a while!

A Penzance engineer had reiterated the project is still ongoing.

[Cornish bobby]

The Network Rail chairman was in the area today. When he was asked about this he said he was unaware of any cancellations to the project.

Make of that what you will.

[grahame]

The Network Rail chairman was in the area today. When he was asked about this he said he was unaware of any cancellations to the project.

Make of that what you will.

Welcome to the forum, Cornish bobby.

We're tending to thing that the project hasn't been cancelled.  However, I'm not sure that the chair of Network Rail would necessarily be one go the first to be aware; he's got a lot on his plate looking after infrastructure and signalling without worrying about exactly what's going to be running on his tracks. 

[chrisr_75]

The chairman wouldn't necessarily have a detailed knowledge of operational matters anyway, his or her responsibility in the company framework is to ensure that the board operates effectively. The Chief Executive and more likely the executive directors are those people who would have a more detailed working knowledge of the business, but even then I doubt NR^» (Network Rail - home page) directors would know that much about operational matters in the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s.

I think everyone is in agreement that the project, the primary beneficiary being ScotRail, clearly has not been cancelled (I am a little puzzled as to why this appears to be causing some agitation), just that there are some hints it may be modified in some way. Time will no doubt reveal the final status of this project.

[Cornish bobby]

The Network Rail chairman was in the area today. When he was asked about this he said he was unaware of any cancellations to the project.

Make of that what you will.

Welcome to the forum, Cornish bobby.

We're tending to thing that the project hasn't been cancelled.  However, I'm not sure that the chair of Network Rail would necessarily be one go the first to be aware; he's got a lot on his plate looking after infrastructure and signalling without worrying about exactly what's going to be running on his tracks. 

Yes appreciate that but thought it was worth mentioning.

[ChrisB]

Short formed HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units))'s operating on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) won't be happening due to the condition of the MkIII's.

This is news to the MD of GWR....who was on my train from BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) this morning (not sure where he & his family boarded, but on the way to the OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) open day)....he confirmed that the test train is still in Doncaster being converted, then the ones destined for Scotrail are to be converted & then he is still expecting 11 sets of these trains for GWR.

Make of that what you wish, but I thought I'd take the opportunity to ask....

[stuving]

Short formed HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units))'s operating on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) won't be happening due to the condition of the MkIII's.

This is news to the MD of GWR....who was on my train from BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) this morning (not sure where he & his family boarded, but on the way to the OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) open day)....he confirmed that the test train is still in Doncaster being converted, then the ones destined for Scotrail are to be converted & then he is still expecting 11 sets of these trains for GWR.

Make of that what you wish, but I thought I'd take the opportunity to ask....

As written, that suggests that the GWR deliveries will not start until the Scotrail fleet is finished. That would mean at least a change to the early arrival of one or more sets on GWR, which might well have triggered the earlier news/rumour/speculation abut cancellation.

Did you in fact understand that as what yer man said?