Cutdown 125's to operate Penzance to Plymouth clockface service

[whole diary]

[John R]

They'll certainly move on from Devon/Cornwall.

If they're being upgraded with sliding doors, retention toilets (including an accessible toilet), they certainly won't be scrapped though. Any info out there yet as to where they might be going to/leased to?

I doubt there is any info yet, although it's a moot point whether the ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about) would have committed to the cost without some guarantee of continued use beyond 2019.  There is also the point that this represents a significant step up in quality of services between Bristol and the South West, and politically it will be seen as a very retrograde step to replace them with units after only a couple of years.  So I suspect they may have a longer term future on the route than some are suggesting.

[ChrisB]

I think that will depend on a), whether the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) or ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about) is paying for this upgrade, and b) who wins the next franchise. With these short-formed HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to be the only ones left with GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) at the end of this franchise, it may be commercial sense to go with more 80x stock than keep maintenance facilities for just a few HSTs?

[chrisr_75]

Regarding Graham's question on cycle reservations...they will not carry reservations and as such will be unable to book. These will have the same conditions as units currently do where it's simply first come, first served.

What about when (if) they are used on the services originating in Cardiff? I.e. Taunton & Portsmouth? Last time I travelled on one of the Portsmouth services reservations were available...

[paul7575]

Regarding Graham's question on cycle reservations...they will not carry reservations and as such will be unable to book. These will have the same conditions as units currently do where it's simply first come, first served.

What about when (if) they are used on the services originating in Cardiff? I.e. Taunton & Portsmouth? Last time I travelled on one of the Portsmouth services reservations were available...

Partly an academic point while HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) cannot operate the Portsmouth service, they are out of gauge between Southampton and Fareham.

I actually expect they'll have a relatively short life following this temporary expediency.   They are still pretty old stock at the end of the day, and the improvements being made to reflect 2020 requirements don't actually make them into useful general purpose DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) replacements, they are still end door long distance stock.   Eventually someone will bite the bullet and scrap them.

Paul

[John R]

The modifications will be pretty expensive, particularly the doors, so there must be some prospect of a longer life. As to who is paying, you can be sure that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) is not ultimately bearing the cost given that a) the problem is of their making and b) the franchise ends shortly after their introduction.

Do we know whether these HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s are the ones owned by First Group or by one of the ROSCOs^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about)?  That would have quite an influence on the financial circumstances behind the initiative. But either way, if the owner is paying for it themselves then they will need some certainty of getting a return on their investment.

[grahame]

Comment earlier about having the whole shortened fleet at one base eventually - Craigentinny, operating the initial fleet Glasgow and Edinburgh to Aberdeen and Inverness.   Logic suggests that if they're liked on the long long distance expresses they could also cover shorter services.   Perhaps Barry Links will replace Pewsey as the only station served exclusively by HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)!

[ChrisB]

It would make definite sense that they all end up being maintained by just one depot. So eventually, Scotrail?

Don't First only own 5 HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)? And thsy're converting more than that, aren't they?

[Rhydgaled]

Do we know whether these HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s are the ones owned by First Group or by one of the ROSCOs^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about)?  That would have quite an influence on the financial circumstances behind the initiative. But either way, if the owner is paying for it themselves then they will need some certainty of getting a return on their investment.

On another forum, I read that the First Group owned sets (or the power cars, at least) are included in the project but there aren't enough of those and a similar number of Angel trains power cars (not sure about coaches) will also get the modifications.

[Tim]

Partly an academic point while HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) cannot operate the Portsmouth service, they are out of gauge between Southampton and Fareham.

Paul

I think that is only true if the stock uses one of the two bogie suspension types in use (short swing versus long swing IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly)).  It is possible that these reconfigured HSTs will use the compatible type of bogie or that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) will sort out the gauging issue

[LiskeardRich]

Partly an academic point while HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) cannot operate the Portsmouth service, they are out of gauge between Southampton and Fareham.

Paul

I think that is only true if the stock uses one of the two bogie suspension types in use (short swing versus long swing IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly)).  It is possible that these reconfigured HSTs will use the compatible type of bogie or that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) will sort out the gauging issue

No it's not. There is an area of limited clearance they can't go through as they foul the structure. 153s can't work that part neither

[Timmer]

No it's not. There is an area of limited clearance they can't go through as they foul the structure. 153s can't work that part neither

The curve at St Denys perhaps?

[JayMac]

Class 43 power cars are barred from using the stretch of line between St Denys and Fareham. Clearance issues on Hamble Viaduct. The prohibition on this stretch of line is nothing to do with Mk3 bogie swing links.

HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to Portsmouth would have to go via Chandlers Ford, Eastleigh and Botley to Fareham, missing the important stop at Southampton, or reverse at Eastleigh after Southampton. Neither would be suitable for daily timetabled services and franchise commitments.

[RailCornwall]

As these are imminent, are there any pictures anywhere of these cutdown trains?

[Adelante_CCT]

As mentioned above, was due to start on the 11th September, but I believe they may be a little delayed. Also I think initially it's just the one unit, with others to follow next year.

[RichardB]

As mentioned above, was due to start on the 11th September, but I believe they may be a little delayed. Also I think initially it's just the one unit, with others to follow next year.

Yes, definitely one initially and I've been hearing that it has been a bit delayed too.  In the "HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) for 2020" piece in the new Modern Railways, it says the refurbished set will be released in early November.