First / MTR win South Western franchise 2017 - 2024, and CMA raises competition concerns (merged topic)

[whole diary]

[Noggin]

But who will want to use them when they can get the same for less money?

IIUC they were only expensive because Stagecoach had taken them on their own initiative on a 2 year lease. They are AC-capable, the first two had the AC kit for type approval, the rest weren't factory fitted with it, but it's easy enough to do that it could be done whilst the units were having the stickers changed to move franchise.

I suspect that a franchisee that wanted them on a 10 year lease could get a significantly better deal. The only major issues are that they are painted bright red and have no toilets.

[grahame]

I suspect that a franchisee that wanted them on a 10 year lease could get a significantly better deal. The only major issues are that they are painted bright red and have no toilets.

Most UK^▸ (United Kingdom) cities now have at least some electric suburban lines and I suspect that homes will be found (if not already pencilled in) somewhere between places on this list:

1. London – 9,750,500
2. Birmingham – 2,453,700
3. Manchester – 1,903,100
4. Glasgow – 1,057,600
5. Newcastle – 837,500
6. Sheffield – 818,800
7. Liverpool – 793,100
8. Leeds – 761,500
9. Bristol – 706,600
10. Belfast – 675,600

Excluding Bristol and Belfast, all the cities listed have pantograph rail services. Sheffield's tram, though, very inappropriate for class 707.  Data from City Metric as part of an interesting study as to how you measure the size of a city, so that have lots of lists and rankings.

[Alan Pettitt]

I suppose my £10 Megatrain ticket Honiton to London is coming to an end 

[ChrisB]

Richard Clinnick from Rail has seen the new logo

[Alan Pettitt]

I am a little bit worried about what could happen, I was living in Axminster when Southwest Trains first got the franchise, 21 years ago, I travelled on the first day, no problems, but things went a little bit downhill for a short while, they seemed to run out of drivers and other train crew for a little while. However, since then I cannot knock the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) service on the Exeter line, I was at Salisbury last year, supposed to be a 3 car to Axminster and Exeter, got a bit busy before it left so they made it 6 car. As many of you know, when my mother became very ill a couple of years ago I moved back here to Axminster, but I still get the train several times a week from here to Salisbury and change there for Trowbridge, Bath, and Bristol, depending on the day. Many times (including Tuesday just gone) GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) reduce the number of coaches from Bristol, due to what they call "more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time" meaning that trains from Bristol in the evening peak are extremely crowded, and some people give up trying to get on the train. So far, in the past 21 years, I have never known that between Salisbury and Axminster. My wfrom orry is, that now I am back in Axminster, F(GW^▸ (Great Western))R will be "borrowing" trains from _LSWR to cover their rolling stock shortages and we might not get the same service. I was working in Weymouth when First took over the Wessex service, and I must admit that I was not that impressed with the way that they tried to cut the service down. This year it is 10 years, and they still say that there is a "Nationwide shortage of carriages", so how many, in this 10 years, have they ordered?

[Noggin]

Richard Clinnick from Rail has seen the new logo

I believe its a hoax, but I could be wrong. Of course it would look far better in the original LSWR^▸ (London South Western Railway) green, although interestingly, the NRM^» (National Railway Museum, at York and Shildon - about)'s ex-LSWR M7 does feature that kind of red lead colour too.

[onthecushions]

I wonder whether FG might think of using HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s on the busy workings West of Salisbury and offer some of the 159's to Scotland (IIUC).

I can't see the sense of making passenger trains shorter at the moment.

OTC

[JayMac]

I wonder whether FG might think of using HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s on the busy workings West of Salisbury and offer some of the 159's to Scotland (IIUC).

Where rolling stock goes isn't really in the gift of TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company). That's for the RoSCo's to negotiate and decide.

[ChrisB]

First Group do own 5 HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)...so I guess they are able to allocate them to any franchise they run.

Otherwise, I believe that the rules for franchises rule out lending/borrowing between franchises.

[bobm]

Depends what your definition of lending is.  GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) do hire in two SWT^▸ (South West Trains) units a day.

[ChrisB]

Richard Clinnick from Rail has seen the new logo

I believe its a hoax, but I could be wrong. Of course it would look far better in the original LSWR^▸ (London South Western Railway) green, although interestingly, the NRM^» (National Railway Museum, at York and Shildon - about)'s ex-LSWR M7 does feature that kind of red lead colour too.

Ithink Richard Clinnick referred to seeing this on a First Facebook page. Is he right? Difficult to check from an iphone

[ellendune]

A suggestion that it may be a spoof:

http://railwayeye.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/firstmtr-brand-for-south-western-emerges.html


But no such suggestion of Richard Clinnick's twitter stream

https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/849714168123060224/photo/1

[grahame]

First Group do own 5 HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)...so I guess they are able to allocate them to any franchise they run.

Otherwise, I believe that the rules for franchises rule out lending/borrowing between franchises.

Depends what your definition of lending is.  GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) do hire in two SWT^▸ (South West Trains) units a day.

And there are East Midlands power cars on Virgin East Coast services.   FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (as it then was) had 5 (?) Arriva Trains Wales class 150 units for a while, and I understand that Southern trains have appeared on Thameslink services, or was it Thameslink trains on Southern services.   Awful lot of rule breaking going on if it's not allowed 

[paul7575]

Depends what your definition of lending is.  GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) do hire in two SWT^▸ (South West Trains) units a day.

Only one at the moment, and it gets its own section of the Southwestern ITT^▸ (Invitation to Tender) as though it is formally agreed by DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).   

The apparently random transfers of stock around the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) we used to know as Southern, Thameslink and GatEx are all under the control of the one combined "franchise" known to DfT as TSGN, and operated by GTR.   Most of the shuffles go back to a programme in that franchisee's ITT and concern the introduction timescales of the DfT's Thameslink fleet, and all the knock on effects of that being late.

My gut reaction is that no, GWR and the new SW franchise will not be swapping HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) and 158 or 159s around, and especially not if they were to attempt to impact on the Scotrail plans for HSTs.

Paul

[onthecushions]

I think that there are 27 HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets planned for transfer to Scotland which, with shortening could result in 95 Mark 3 trailers coming off lease (and therefore not earning for their ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about)), going either to Long Marston or worse to C F Booth's at Rotherham.

Just a few of these could cover much if not all of the Waterloo Exeter services.

I don't understand the logic of crammed service trains and stored carriages - wasn't privatisation supposed to stop that?

OTC