James Gray looks forward on Corsham

[whole diary]

[grahame]

James Gray, MP^▸ (Member of Parliament), on prospects for a Bristol to Cambridge service.

https://play.buto.tv/2Q29G

[ChrisB]

Very little I suspect until more capacity appears between Didcot & Swindon

[Bmblbzzz]

So Corsham is to become the fourth corner of the triangle quadrilateral of science? 

[Noggin]

James Gray, MP^▸ (Member of Parliament), on prospects for a Bristol to Cambridge service.

https://play.buto.tv/2Q29G

Nice to see an MP in a rural English seat lobbying for rail, and to hear that a East/West rail is still being lobbied for.

As he says, who cares what services are proposed for the stations, just get the things built ASAP and figure out the details later.

Rather than wait for east-west rail though, I would have thought a good option would be to include Wiltshire in Metro West and extend services east to Swindon? Presumably there should be enough Turbos around to run it if there's enough capacity on the line? 

[grahame]

Nice to see an MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) in a rural English seat lobbying for rail, and to hear that a East/West rail is still being lobbied for.

As he says, who cares what services are proposed for the stations, just get the things built ASAP and figure out the details later.

Rather than wait for east-west rail though, I would have thought a good option would be to include Wiltshire in Metro West and extend services east to Swindon? Presumably there should be enough Turbos around to run it if there's enough capacity on the line? 

Answering the second point first ... this is the "back" of a promotion in which the Wantage / Grove case is lead, pressed by the Oxfordshire MPs, and on that basis extending MetroWest to Swindon doesn't meet their need.

"Who cares what services" ... hhhmmm ... there's little point in building a station if nothing will call. "London to Bath and Bristol expresses cannot stop at a wayside station like Corsham" we are told "so you need a service before you can have a station".   Currently there is a train passing through at 08:38 on its way to Swindon that's a 150 + 153 combo, but that one service isn't regarded as enough to serve the station.   Metro West with the "what do we do with it at Bath?" hourly train extended to Swindon would serve Corsham and be really useful there; the main Corsham flow would actually (according to studies) be to Bath and west thereof, secondary flow to Swindon and change for London, so that would work well.

Swindon (and west thereof) to Oxford (and north and east thereof) is also a significant flow opportunity, and would provide a train of regional rather than intercity nature through the Grove and Wantage site.   I'm not personally convinced that the major flows from Grove and Wantage are actually to either Swindon or Oxford - I suspect there's a very strong desire to travel to Reading and London, and that "for London change at Appleford" would soon  be regarded as a poor second best to a through service, especially with Appleford likely to be on a diesel link to Didcot.

P.S. We haven't mentioned Royal Wootton Bassett, Saltford or St. Anne's in this discussion ... yet.

[Bmblbzzz]

It's hard to imagine "change at Appleford" being a decent answer to anything. Change at Didcot, with trains reversing there between Swindon and Oxford, would surely serve far more people. Didcot's a lot more of a "centre" than Appleford.

[grahame]

It's hard to imagine "change at Appleford" being a decent answer to anything. Change at Didcot, with trains reversing there between Swindon and Oxford, would surely serve far more people. Didcot's a lot more of a "centre" than Appleford.

Depends on who's running the service / whether it's part of the franchise.   As Franchise, reversal at Didcot would be practical.  As open access, it would be regarded as potentially abstractional and the trains couldn't call.

[ellendune]

I'm not personally convinced that the major flows from Grove and Wantage are actually to either Swindon or Oxford - I suspect there's a very strong desire to travel to Reading and London, and that "for London change at Appleford" would soon  be regarded as a poor second best to a through service, especially with Appleford likely to be on a diesel link to Didcot.

It has almost certainly changed in the last 40+ years since I lived there, but then the major commutes from Wantage/Grove were definitely to Oxford and Harwell (Harwell Science and Innovation Campus).  There were also a few who commuted to Swindon.

I would say Oxford and Harwell certainly would still be major commuter destinations from Wantage and Grove. 

[grahame]

It has almost certainly changed in the last 40+ years since I lived there, but then the major commutes from Wantage/Grove were definitely to Oxford and Harwell (Harwell Science and Innovation Campus).  There were also a few who commuted to Swindon.

I would say Oxford and Harwell certainly would still be major commuter destinations from Wantage and Grove. 

Interesting - thank you.

The railhead for the Harwell Campus is Didcot ... with frequent (but quite slow) buses from the station to the campus - around half of which carry on to Wantage. I can't imagine people fro Wantage catching the train to Didcot to connect to the bus.  But the station would be at Grove (Wantage Road) and I'm not sure of the metrics between Wantage and Wantage Road.

[ellendune]

The railhead for the Harwell Campus is Didcot ... with frequent (but quite slow) buses from the station to the campus - around half of which carry on to Wantage. I can't imagine people fro Wantage catching the train to Didcot to connect to the bus.  But the station would be at Grove (Wantage Road) and I'm not sure of the metrics between Wantage and Wantage Road.

I admit the Harwell traffic will not transfer to rail.

However, with good bus links I see no reason why Oxford should not be a strong market for rail. Parking is difficult and traffic bad.

Wantage road once had excellent public transport links to the station (the tramway, but it closed to passengers in 1928). However, the station is very near Grove and the internal Wantage/Grove bus services could easily serve the station.

[ChrisB]

Until the extra housing is built around Wantage/Grove, I would suggest that there is no untapped pax wanting to travel, as they all currently travel via Didcot - see the car park usage there!

So building that station will wait until a) the houses are being built, and b) capacity between Swindon/Didcot is capable of carrying stopping trains. The 387s to Didcot extended through to Swindon would be the obvious carrier towards London, with EWR being the cross-country carrier you are discussing above.

[Noggin]

Nice to see an MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) in a rural English seat lobbying for rail, and to hear that a East/West rail is still being lobbied for.

As he says, who cares what services are proposed for the stations, just get the things built ASAP and figure out the details later.

Rather than wait for east-west rail though, I would have thought a good option would be to include Wiltshire in Metro West and extend services east to Swindon? Presumably there should be enough Turbos around to run it if there's enough capacity on the line? 

Answering the second point first ... this is the "back" of a promotion in which the Wantage / Grove case is lead, pressed by the Oxfordshire MPs, and on that basis extending MetroWest to Swindon doesn't meet their need.

"Who cares what services" ... hhhmmm ... there's little point in building a station if nothing will call. "London to Bath and Bristol expresses cannot stop at a wayside station like Corsham" we are told "so you need a service before you can have a station".   Currently there is a train passing through at 08:38 on its way to Swindon that's a 150 + 153 combo, but that one service isn't regarded as enough to serve the station.   Metro West with the "what do we do with it at Bath?" hourly train extended to Swindon would serve Corsham and be really useful there; the main Corsham flow would actually (according to studies) be to Bath and west thereof, secondary flow to Swindon and change for London, so that would work well.

Swindon (and west thereof) to Oxford (and north and east thereof) is also a significant flow opportunity, and would provide a train of regional rather than intercity nature through the Grove and Wantage site.   I'm not personally convinced that the major flows from Grove and Wantage are actually to either Swindon or Oxford - I suspect there's a very strong desire to travel to Reading and London, and that "for London change at Appleford" would soon  be regarded as a poor second best to a through service, especially with Appleford likely to be on a diesel link to Didcot.

P.S. We haven't mentioned Royal Wootton Bassett, Saltford or St. Anne's in this discussion ... yet.

Stations are trains are chicken and egg aren't they? But arguably if you agree to build the station first (which will take a fair few years to go through the GRIP^▸ (Guide to Railway Investment Projects) process anyway), then in the meantime a suitable service way of serving it can be found, assuming that there are enough paths for a stopping service.

I take your point on the journeys though, it seems to me that throughout much of the country we desperately need a wholesale restoration of intermediate stations and stopping services, but of course the problem is that many of our main lines are already overtaxed, whilst the complexity of our geography means that stopping services are harder to squeeze in.

[simonw]

The rail system was thinned out over the past 70 years to a point where many stopping services are not viable, without doubling track or adding sidings.

Current mainlines have high speed traffic every 15/30 minutes normally, so the timeframe for a stopping service to use the mainline is not great.

[ChrisB]

Worcestershire Parkway is an example of where there is sufficient political pressure, the station will get built even though no TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) really wants to stop, and the pathing is such that it is likely to need other stops removed to ensure that the path is big enough to be able to stop.

cf Pershore/Honeybourne on the North Cotswolds, where the proposed IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) once-an-hour timetable is likely to have to drop stops in order to fit WParkway in....b*ll*cks really. A town the size of Worcester does not need 3 stations

[didcotdean]

Oxfordshire CC has considered a station for Wantage/Grove a 'priority' for some years, but it has gone nowhere because of the problem of identifying any trains that could form a reasonable service. They pin their hopes eventually on an hourly East-West service and a peak service from Swindon on to London some time in the next decade - or possibly now beyond (2025-2030). They also want four trains an hour between Didcot and Oxford and on to Bicester, of which the former would be one.