Travel by train, Boxing day 2016

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Train services are running as follows:

London Victoria to Gatwick Airport, Brighton, Sutton and East Croydon
London Liverpool Street to Stansted Airport (serving intermediate stations)
London Marylebone to Oxford Parkway
Southport to Liverpool South Parkway
Liverpool Central to Kirby,West Kirby, New Brighton, Ormskirk and Hooton
Wide range of services in Glasgow area

In London, the Overground and the Waterloo and City lines are closed. Bakerloo, District and Circle lines are part closed.  Good service report on all other lines.

Buses / coaches from Gatwick and Heathrow airports to Reading.   
First Bus are running a Bristol to Bath service and also some routes in the Bristol area

This is almost certainly not a complete list and you are welcome to add to it.

[ChrisB]

Berlin....everything running, just like it did yesterday (Xmas Day). Trains, S& U-Bahn, the latter at 5min intervals in the afternoon, 10mins in morning

The UK^▸ (United Kingdom) must catch up....

[TaplowGreen]

Berlin....everything running, just like it did yesterday (Xmas Day). Trains, S& U-Bahn, the latter at 5min intervals in the afternoon, 10mins in morning

The UK^▸ (United Kingdom) must catch up....

  Couldn't agree more, definitely on Boxing Day  (........ducks & takes cover!) 

[grahame]

Berlin....everything running, just like it did yesterday (Xmas Day). Trains, S& U-Bahn, the latter at 5min intervals in the afternoon, 10mins in morning

The UK^▸ (United Kingdom) must catch up....

  Couldn't agree more, definitely on Boxing Day  (........ducks & takes cover!) 

Don't know why you're ducking ...

I'm not sure of intervals, frequencies ... and I'm going to suggest that the Christmas and New Year period remains  an opportunity for significant engineering closures.  But the organisational systems we have on the main rail network in the UK don't lend themselves to an easy fix, and being "just two days in the year" it's not going to be at the top of anyone's list to fix in London during the 350+ normal days of the year.  Of course London does have public transport on Boxing Day, so many of those who live and work in the capital and decide for the country as a whole might not have personal experience of what many passengers complain about.  If (note that word is in bold) passenger levels are going to be low, there is an argument for premium or peak pricing on Boxing Day ... just as there is on (for example) late night trains and buses for the rest of the year.

I wondered when I started this thread whether to describe Boxing Day as "own goal" day - the day in the year when the railway industry shows the country that it can do without trains.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone could get together in the New Year and say "let's try something a bit more on 26th December 2017 of the overall good of our industry and customers" but alas I think I would have to describe that as "cloud cuckoo land".

[Surrey 455]

Train services are running as follows:

London Victoria to Gatwick Airport, Brighton, Sutton and East Croydon
.......

Sorry, are you trying to tell us that Southern are running trains today? Must be a christmas present.

[grahame]

A good illustration of the "not my problem" mentality ... noting that Labour were in power for some ten years during which there were no Boxing Day services to speak of either ...

from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

Rail passengers face major Boxing Day disruption

[snip]Shadow transport secretary Andy McDonald said: "Tory ministers' handling of the Boxing Day rail standstill is making it much harder for families and friends to visit one another this Christmas break.

"In opposition the Tories attacked the Boxing Day rail shutdown. They've now had more than six years to do something about it but haven't.

"Their lack of action, even despite the chaos of previous years, gives the impression they don't really care about it at all. The Tory hypocrisy on this issue is astounding."

Rail operators that are not running services on Boxing Day include Arriva Trains Wales, c2C, CrossCountry, East Midlands, Grand Central, Great Northern, Great Western, London Midland, Northern Rail, South West, Thameslink, TransPennine Express and Virgin.

A Department for Transport spokeswoman said: "Deciding the level of service on specific days is a matter for train operators.

"But we know some passengers want to travel on Boxing Day, and that's why we have worked with the rail industry to ensure there are limited services on some franchises on that day, and that the scope for Boxing Day services is considered when we are planning future franchises.

[IndustryInsider]

Don't know why you're ducking ...

Nor me.  I've long been an advocate for more Boxing Day trains as you know.  It sounds like even ChrisB has now been persuaded.   

I'm confident that Crossrail will operate on Boxing Day when it commences as drivers contracts stipulate it, though for it to reach Reading it will need Network Rail to open the relevant signalling workstations (though the majority are open anyway for dealing with engineering and possessions).

Other operators will need it to be specified in their franchise aggreements as it will no doubt be a 'loss maker' on the vast majority of routes, so every time a franchise consultation is launched I urge everyone to push for Boxing Day services to be included. That way the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and wider government have to listen.  That will encourage more passengers which will encourage operators to run more routes and eventually a tipping point will be reached.

[JayMac]

In my new area of residence, I have no public transport tomorrow, 27th, either.

[Electric train]

I have worked on the railways for 40 plus years, working Christmas and Boxing days is not alien to me as I have worked quite a few of those 40 plus Christmases

I found this statement on a Facebook group i belong to

"No trains on Christmas Day dates back to the early 1960's as the government tried to cut losses during the Beeching era. This extended to Boxing Day by 1981 to most of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) except Scotland who took New Year's Day as their second "train free" day.
What most people do not realise is that to run trains Boxing Day would mean an army of staff also working Christmas Day, including Cleaners, Fitters, Drivers, shunters, Signallers, Controllers and a host of depot and other response staff who look after the plant and machinery."


Is it financially viable to run trains over Christmas and Boxing Day, would there be sufficient revenue to justify the level of staffing, would the traveling public be willing to pay the premium either as a fare on the day(s) or as an addition to the cost of tickets through the year?  It is likely also that the very disruptive engineering works that are held back to the Christmas break would mean greater disruption on more weekend through out the year, there are major tasks planned for the next 5 Christmases at places through out the UK.

[grahame]

From Network Rail

The consolidation of more than 800 signal boxes into 14 state of the art rail operating centres begins the next chapter in the history of signalling on Britain’s railway. The introduction of a new rail traffic management technology in these centres will improve both capacity and performance on the railway network.

We've been working with English Heritage, Historic Scotland, Cadw (Welsh Assembly Government) and the National Railway Museum to make sure there is a record of signal boxes for future generations.

Not sure of their dates on that, but the railway's a very different beast in 2016 to it was in 1981 - and passenger numbers have doubled since that time on a network that's not too different it size to it was then. We have had a few gains and the odd loss like Clayton West, Balloch Pier and Croxley Green.

There's the short term financially viability to look at - also the lateral damage done by tuning people away on Boxing day, and the effect on the economy of the communities served; that latter's taken into account by the franchise system for the rest of the year, so should be for these two days too.

My thought is that it could do with a proper look.  I hope I didn't come across as suggesting the whole network should run right through Christmas, as I would be very surprised if the outcome of a review suggested that, and I would not want to rule out this time of year for major engineering works;  I think I've seen note than one Christmas closure is worth months of weekend blockages.

"No trains on Christmas Day dates back to the early 1960's as the government tried to cut losses during the Beeching era. This extended to Boxing Day by 1981 to most of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) except Scotland who took New Year's Day as their second "train free" day. What most people do not realise is that to run trains Boxing Day would mean an army of staff also working Christmas Day, including Cleaners, Fitters, Drivers, shunters, Signallers, Controllers and a host of depot and other response staff who look after the plant and machinery."

ok ... if you were to shut down for business at the end of Christmas Eve and restart on the morning of 26th with a limited services for that day, I'm afraid I'm not understanding why the "army" of cleaners, shunters, etc is needed on 25th.  ... and I'm noting that the modern army, like the modern railway is equipment rich and personnel sparse.

No conclusion here - just questions and thoughts.  Some extensions - such as Oxford Parkway to Oxford and Stansted to Cambridge seem to be 'no brainers' ... not running to (say) Stranraer would seem to be a 'no brainer' the other way.  But really it would be worthy of a proper look and analysed common decision to set the grounds for the future.

[TaplowGreen]

Don't know why you're ducking ...

Nor me.  I've long been an advocate for more Boxing Day trains as you know.  It sounds like even ChrisB has now been persuaded.   

I'm confident that Crossrail will operate on Boxing Day when it commences as drivers contracts stipulate it, though for it to reach Reading it will need Network Rail to open the relevant signalling workstations (though the majority are open anyway for dealing with engineering and possessions).

Other operators will need it to be specified in their franchise aggreements as it will no doubt be a 'loss maker' on the vast majority of routes, so every time a franchise consultation is launched I urge everyone to push for Boxing Day services to be included. That way the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and wider government have to listen.  That will encourage more passengers which will encourage operators to run more routes and eventually a tipping point will be reached.

Thank you for your support!

My reason for ducking and covering was that this is a perennial theme and in previous years there has always been the suggestion (forcefully put) that it was the bruvvers wot won everyone involved the right to have a 2 day break over Christmas Day/Boxing Day and that it was very unlikely that anyone would give it up................I believe that one of the arguments put forward against a Boxing Day service was that rail staff would have to go easy on the ale on Christmas Day.....................

I've read the comments from all on this thread with interest..........I really don't think there is an argument for a Christmas Day service but the case for a Boxing Day service is compelling...........the World has changed as others have pointed out and there is much activity around sales, sporting events, working patterns etc.

Problem is if you had a "limited" service, especially on long distance routes it may well be overwhelmed (normal Sundays now see pretty much hideous overcrowding every week between Cornwall/London), so unless GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) managed ticket sales carefully (they won't - there's too much revenue in cramming on as many folks regardless of comfort and safety), it could end up being ridiculous and worse than the current arrangements.

The railways are very old fashioned with a lot of ancient practices and are not renowned for being "can do", there is rather too much "It won't work because", rather than "if we do XYZ we can make it work"............and then there are the Unions to deal with and we all know at the moment what chaos they can create if they want to make a point and put their minds to it.

My thought would be a normal Bank Holiday service on Boxing Day, with limited ticket sales - I'm not necessarily saying no standees, but the overwhelming majority reservation only on the longer routes.

Of course I'm coming at this from the perspective of a humble fare paying customer whom the railways are allegedly there to serve.............I'm not conversant with all the technical and logistical matters, but at the end of the day we did manage to organise D-Day successfully so I'm sure something could be possible if the will existed?

Hope everyone is having a good Christmas.

[didcotdean]

It is always easier to carry on (let alone stop) a service than reintroduce it. Culture adjusts to the situation.

At the time that Boxing Day services were first 'suspended' system-wide in England and Wales in 1975, the BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) contractual arrangements with staff was time and a half pay plus a day in lieu. The number of people that were expected to travel on that day across the whole country was no more than 55,000.

Today Boxing Day working is excluded from the contracts of a significant section of the railway overall. I don't know if this was negotiated in exchange for something else, or because of the recent custom considered something of little concern at the time. Additionally it is largely outside of the franchise agreements - meaning the government would be likely to have to accept less of an annual premium if running the services on this day was considered less economic.

Note that Christmas and Boxing Day services had been thinning out for decades - I have turned up a complaint from a Devon MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) about the lack of such on both days locally in his area in 1948.

[TonyK]

Train services are running as follows:

London Victoria to Gatwick Airport, Brighton, Sutton and East Croydon
London Liverpool Street to Stansted Airport (serving intermediate stations)
London Marylebone to Oxford Parkway
Southport to Liverpool South Parkway
Liverpool Central to Kirby,West Kirby, New Brighton, Ormskirk and Hooton
Wide range of services in Glasgow area

In London, the Overground and the Waterloo and City lines are closed. Bakerloo, District and Circle lines are part closed.  Good service report on all other lines.

Buses / coaches from Gatwick and Heathrow airports to Reading.   
First Bus are running a Bristol to Bath service and also some routes in the Bristol area

This is almost certainly not a complete list and you are welcome to add to it.

I drove from home in Devon to home in Bristol along an almost spookily quiet M5. I don't recall seeing a lorry, although there were a couple of National Express coaches.

[ellendune]

I drove from home in Devon to home in Bristol along an almost spookily quiet M5. I don't recall seeing a lorry, although there were a couple of National Express coaches.

I drove from Swindon to Woking and back and the roads were anything but quiet.  fewer lorries than usual, coaches about normal, more than the usual number of cars for the time of day.  Also a 45min standstill several miles long on the M4 due to a vehicle fire. 

[TonyK]

I drove from Swindon to Woking and back and the roads were anything but quiet. 

I wouldn't start from there if I were you...