Travel by train, Boxing day 2016

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

I drove from home in Devon to home in Bristol along an almost spookily quiet M5. I don't recall seeing a lorry, although there were a couple of National Express coaches.

I drove from Swindon to Woking and back and the roads were anything but quiet.  fewer lorries than usual, coaches about normal, more than the usual number of cars for the time of day.  Also a 45min standstill several miles long on the M4 due to a vehicle fire. 

I (unexpectedly) drove back from Plymouth to Taplow yesterday late afternoon, lots of Megabus/National Express coaches but I also noticed how quiet it was generally - I think the fact that Christmas fell over the weekend had a lot to do with this, I would imagine it will be considerably busier today.......good luck to all on the roads or braving the trains!

[Electric train]

I guess there are couple things that need to happen to have train services on Boxing Day or even Christmas Day

The TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s can see there will be a profit (remember they are not charities) in running trains bearing in mind they will have to pay enhanced rates to staff and or give TOIL
The TOC's convince NR^» (Network Rail - home page) to run trains, which actually i think is the easier part to organise again NR will have to pay enhanced rates to staff and or give TOIL

Or

The Government through the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) will need to change the terms of the franchises with the TOC, this will still involve having to pay enhanced rates to staff and or give TOIL

The Government through the DfT will need to direct NR to timetable train services this will still involve having to pay enhanced rates to staff and or give TOIL


The to paying of enhanced rates to staff and or give TOIL is all rapped up in terms and conditions of employment which differ from TOC to TOC and there are also variations within NR as a legacy of the old IMC and RT.


I am guessing NR would want at least the Track Access fees from the TOC's as they get for a Sunday service so it would not be viable for a TOC to run an hourly service from say 10am to 8pm on selective routes where a normal Sunday service would be half hourly from 7am to 11pm on all routes or the Government stand the cost.


Boxing Day service doable YES .................. will it be cost effective to the tax payer / fare payer

[TonyK]

It's quiet on the roads again today, so I imagine it isn't going to be particularly busy on the trains. Running any sort of a service  over the holiday period would be costly in terms of staff premium wages and overtime, for not that many pax. It would also mean the Orange Army couldn't graft away so easily while the rest of us tuck into our turkey and that bottle of port.

It would also deprive the media of one of its favourite news stories of the year - the Great Christmas Shutdown, and the almost insurmountable problems it will cause the couple of passengers they can find on Christmas Eve who are still sober. If it weren't for the tinsel, they could record Easter's version at the same time.

[IndustryInsider]

It would run at a cost to the taxpayer, but a worthy one in my opinion.  After all, many normal services early morning, late at night, and quite a few during the day all run at the taxpayers expense currently in effect.

For GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) a phased introduction from the start of the new franchise in 2020, when services are up and running on Crossrail, and most major engineering works have been completed.  Using volunteers rather than rostered staff, to avoid awkward union negotiations would be the most sensible way forward.  Probably just the majority of the DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) routes first and maybe Reading to Gatwick.  Then assuming it's successful you could expand it to Bristol/Swansea/Plymouth - I doubt all the Cornish boxes would ever make Penzance a realistic possibility.

Get that all written into the franchise agreement and bids would come in at a slightly reduced level than if they weren't in there - the 'cost' to the taxpayer, but an amount that would look very insignificant compared to the overall franchise subsidies and payments.

[old original]

A problem with volunteer staffing, is can you guarantee on their support every year?
I believe First Kernow buses have to have volunteers to operate a service on bankholidays as bankholidays fall outside the agreed working week , that's why it's only a Sunday service. If I remember correctly last January they managed to run a Sunday service on NYD, but not this year.

Just an observation.

[IndustryInsider]

Pay them enough and you can.  There's a pool of some 300 drivers within the LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) driver ranks alone, so if only 1 in 10 could be tempted they'd still be enough for a pretty comprehensive service say between 7am-10pm.  Hourly OXF^» (Oxford - next trains)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) fast (6-car Turbo), hourly DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains)-PAD stopper (8-car 387), hourly BDW-PAD semi-fast, hourly RDG^‡(resolve)-GTW semi-fast, and perhaps a shuttle on the branches would be about right as a starter.  Minimal numbers of platform staff would be required for DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) trains, and no guards (aside from the Gatwick line).  You then ramp it up depending on how successful it is.

Chiltern have had no problems and their service is run by volunteers.

[John R]

And if the service costs more to run then maybe cheap advance fares should not be available. Except then the railway would be accused of ripping off the passenger, so there would still be a news story for the press to moan about.

[broadgage]

I can see the arguments either way regarding boxing day trains, but what about declaring Boxing day a "proper" public holiday, and prohibiting by law most businesses from opening ? That would greatly reduce demand for train services.

Large shops, theatres, cinemas, sports stadia, theme parks, night clubs, and public entertainments in general.

This may sound radical but would give millions more workers a proper two day break.
There would also be a significant energy saving and environmental gain by not heating and lighting the above premises.

Whilst the retail and entertainment industries would howl in protest at the "billions of pounds lost, and consequent number of employees thrown out of work" I consider such arguments to be false. The public only have so much money to spend, and I see no overall loss to the retail trade if people cant buy new furniture on boxing day but have to postpone such purchases for 24 hours.
If all large stores were shut by law, no one store would be put at a disadvantage, and they would all save a days overtime payment and fuel costs.

[TonyK]

There is much on the sporting calendar for boxing day. The only premier league fans able to follow their team by train yesterday were Crystal Palace's, who at least could get to Watford and back. Making it a proper public holiday wouldn't stop hospital staff having to go into work, but given how quiet it was on the roads where I was on Boxing Day - and I would have driven anyway - I'm not sure there is a great deal of call for services.

[IndustryInsider]

Plenty of cars on the motorways and trunk roads I was on mid-afternoon.  Very few lorries and the odd bus.

[TaplowGreen]

I can see the arguments either way regarding boxing day trains, but what about declaring Boxing day a "proper" public holiday, and prohibiting by law most businesses from opening ? That would greatly reduce demand for train services.

Large shops, theatres, cinemas, sports stadia, theme parks, night clubs, and public entertainments in general.

This may sound radical but would give millions more workers a proper two day break.
There would also be a significant energy saving and environmental gain by not heating and lighting the above premises.

Whilst the retail and entertainment industries would howl in protest at the "billions of pounds lost, and consequent number of employees thrown out of work" I consider such arguments to be false. The public only have so much money to spend, and I see no overall loss to the retail trade if people cant buy new furniture on boxing day but have to postpone such purchases for 24 hours.
If all large stores were shut by law, no one store would be put at a disadvantage, and they would all save a days overtime payment and fuel costs.

...........did Oliver Cromwell just walk in? 

[IndustryInsider]

Whilst I think Broadgage's idea has some merit - I can't think of anything worse than shopping on Boxing Day - if we're being realistic it's very unlikely to happen.  The reality is that more and more people are likely to want to travel in the coming years, so the railway should make more of an attempt to cater for its passengers needs and the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) should be more proactive in giving it the nudge it needs to do so.

[JayMac]

I can see the arguments either way regarding boxing day trains, but what about declaring Boxing day a "proper" public holiday, and prohibiting by law most businesses from opening ? That would greatly reduce demand for train services.

And those of us who'd like to travel to/from relatives or work? Having public transport over  Christmas isn't just about getting to and from shops.

This non-driver relied on the goodwill of others to get him to visit relatives in hospital.

[grahame]

I can see the arguments either way regarding boxing day trains, but what about declaring Boxing day a "proper" public holiday, and prohibiting by law most businesses from opening ? That would greatly reduce demand for train services.

Don't like the idea - sorry.

And those of us who'd like to travel to/from relatives or work? Having public transport over  Christmas isn't just about getting to and from shops.

Couldn't agree more.

As owner / operator of a business that stayed open (has chosen to stay open) right over Christmas, I do not want to have to navigate around legislation to allow me to provide facilities that people need over this period of the year and need (in some cases) far more than at other times of year.   It's a customer-facing business and it is/was a real pleasure to talk with customers for whom our services make a difficult part of the year that much more pleasurable and practical.

We are a team of half a dozen, and it's probably fair to say not one of them / us would want to work Monday to Friday from 9 to 5 with all public holidays off.  Over Christmas, yes, there is a preference to spend time with family but also a willingness to pop-in/fill-in for a few hours and/or/if/as needed.   Everyone lives close / no-one needs to rely on public transport (and that's necessary all year - look at me up at 05:30 this morning - 28th December - to do an early breakfast) and whist I took the Christmas day shift this year, that's not always been the case in previous years and indeed even on this 25th, 2 of the team popped by online at our virtual control room and I have "if you need me for a few hours" offers.  I rather suspect that with good staff relationships, there would be very few problems staffing a 'thin' service over one or even two of the days - most people are well used to odd hours and days and prefer the - "I hate 9 to 5 as it kills the day - on earlies, I get the afternoon off to walk the dog and go shopping on on lates I can lie in ..."

[ellendune]

...........did Oliver Cromwell just walk in? 

No he did allow any Christmas celebration so there would be holidays at all!