Lack of seats / first class /mother and baby. International perspective.

[whole diary]

[grahame]

From Allteresting  ... which I suspect is USA based. Interesting to see the international view on this!

After a long day, this mom was glad to find a seat on the train and rest her legs. Unfortunately, she’d sat down next to a mean older woman who wasn’t at all happy about the situation.

Earlier this month, a young mother stepped aboard a busy train, carrying her baby boy in her arms. After some searching, she eventually spotted a seat in the first-class cabin and decided to take it.

An elderly lady was actually using the seat to hold her bag, so the mom politely asked her to move it.

The mom hadn’t actually got a first-class ticket, but the seat was specifically reserved for elderly, disabled or pregnant passengers, so she felt within her rights to take it.

The elderly woman sitting next to her clearly didn’t agree with this.

“I don’t want a screaming baby” says the woman in a video captured by another passenger.

The mother then replies, “He’s not screaming; he is behaving better than you.”

The mother also says, “I asked you nicely to put your bag on the floor and I offered to put it up. I’m carrying a baby; you have to respect me.”

But the old lady answers back, “And you have to respect your elders and betters. People have actually paid to sit in this carriage.”

The argument continues, with several other passengers joining in and taking sides. Some of them thought that the mom shouldn’t be allowed to sit in first class without a ticket, while others encouraged her to stay where she was.

Eventually, a passenger from further along the cabin decided to offer the mom their seat, and she moved.

[ChrisB]

There are two, both very valid, points of view here

[ellendune]

Since an incident when I was a small child I have always had a major disagreement with this idea of "elders and betters" on the ground that anyone who asserts such a "right" may well be elder, but certainly are not better. 

[John R]

From my perspective there is only one answer.  The mother didn't have a first class ticket, and wasn't entitled to sit in first class, even if the seats were reserved for elderly, disabled or pregnant passengers (and she didn't fall into any of those categories).

Whether or not it was appropriate for the elderly lady to harangue her is another matter.  As a regular user of first class I never presume that someone hasn't a valid ticket to sit in first, but if passengers are not acting in a quiet manner conducive to first and I suspect that they may not have an appropriate ticket then I might seek out the TM^▸ (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context) and suggest that a ticket check in that carriage might be appropriate.   

[TaplowGreen]

There's a video of the incident which I have seen - if I can find it I will post it, it happened in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). - suffice to say, the older lady (I wouldn't say elderly) was pig ignorant and extremely rude to the Mother with her baby (rather than child) who was sound asleep and perfectly well behaved.

Most of the passengers (from what I saw) took the Mother's side, even if only because she was so meek and polite and the older woman was so rude and offensive, and deserved no respect whatsoever.

[Brucey]

There is a video on The Sun website: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2387990/southern-rail-first-class-passenger/

Having seen the video now, I'm of the opinion that she is just using the baby as a reason to sit in First Class without paying the appropriate fare.

[TaplowGreen]

There is a video on The Sun website: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2387990/southern-rail-first-class-passenger/

Having seen the video now, I'm of the opinion that she is just using the baby as a reason to sit in First Class without paying the appropriate fare.

............and presumably you heard the guy say that there had been an announcement at Blackfriars advising that First class had been declassified? 

[Brucey]

There is a video on The Sun website: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2387990/southern-rail-first-class-passenger/

Having seen the video now, I'm of the opinion that she is just using the baby as a reason to sit in First Class without paying the appropriate fare.

............and presumably you heard the guy say that there had been an announcement at Blackfriars advising that First class had been declassified? 

I didn't hear that until I turned the volume up high.  His voice is quiter than everyone else in the recording.  Fair enough if First Class had been declassified.

[John R]

Indeed, that completely changes my perspective of the incident.