Split season tickets at Didcot and the the new Conditions of Travel

[whole diary]

[ellendune]

All Swindon to Cheltenham trains double back at Gloucester!

[grahame]

All Swindon to Cheltenham trains double back at Gloucester!

For the purpose of this ticket sales rules, "doubling back" means passing through a station twice - so on the Cross Country service from Filton Abbey Wood to Parkway, that's Lawrence Hill and Stapeleton Road and arguably Filton Abbey Wood itself.

If doubling back were not allowed where there are no stations involved, through ticketing would not be allowed from Maidenhead to Marlow ... from Plymouth to Gunnislake ... from Liskeard to Looe on trains that call at Combe Junction! ... from Filton Abbey Wood to Bath Spa, except on the 5 times a week Rhubarb Loop train ...

[ChrisB]

I guess the test is whether you can oersuade the journey planners to priduce the journey?....

[LiskeardRich]

Re BNM's answer above....

Doubling back used to be banned under the old comditions. Has that ban been lifted?

It was permitted on direct trains as long as the direct  train only called there once.

[ChrisB]

No, not so. You weren't allowed to double back even if you simply passed through.

[LiskeardRich]

No, not so. You weren't allowed to double back even if you simply passed through.

As far back as at least 2009, if not further a direct service was valid, and trumped all other routing rules.
Google rail routing guide direct trains, and several historic results, all evidencing the direct train rule come up.

[ChrisB]

Oh, OK, maybe I was thinking of changing trains & returning. That you certainly couldn't do.

[JayMac]

Re BNM's answer above....

Doubling back used to be banned under the old comditions. Has that ban been lifted?

I don't thinks so - but "doubling back" was banned under the routing guide. This "use any through train" rule is in addition to the routing guide and so doesn't take on the routing guide's doubling back limitations.

Doubling back limitations only apply when you choose to use the Routeing Guide to find/check if a route is valid. You do not need to consult the Routing Guide beyond the introduction if you are on a direct (through) train.

The preamble (Instructions - Section A) to the Routing Guide says:

WHEN TO USE THE NATIONAL ROUTEING GUIDE

Most customers wish to make journeys by through trains or by the shortest route. In both cases they will be travelling on a permitted route... Reference to National Routeing Guide data is only required when a customer is not using an advertised through train or the shortest route.

No need when planning to use a direct (through) train to go deeper into said guide.

[Oxonhutch]

It is coming up to annual season ticket renewal time and I pose the following by example only for criticism: (prices are today's numbers)

[Snip]

Have I missed something here?

So I popped into Didcot Parkway ticket office and posed the same question. Different answer - as I had expected.

No change as far as they are concerned - one to be a season and the other, [another] kind of ticket.  I pointed out that [another] could also include a season ticket but they stated that in their recent training nothing has changed because the second mention of the word 'ticket' didn't explicitly say 'season ticket'.

So who is right? What was the intent of the person{s} who wrote the changes? How should it be read and interpreted by a reasonable person; or an official of the Great Western franchise? We know from past experience that these are not necessarily of the same outlook!

Where do you suggest I could get official clarity on this before the 31^st December?

[ChrisB]

I doubt you wil now...transport Focus

[ChrisB]

However. A season is a ticket, by definition, otherwise travel wouldn't be allowed!

[JayMac]

The NRCoT are right. Staff at Didcot Parkway are wrong. If something in a contract term is not explicitly forbidden then it's allowed.

Interpretation of a contract term that could be considered ambiguous (not that there is any ambiguity in NRCoT 14.2) should favour the customer.

Nowhere in the public domain does it say your second ticket must be of a particular type. Or that certain types of ticket are excluded from 14.2

[grahame]

The NRCoT are right. Staff at Didcot Parkway are wrong. If something in a contract term is not explicitly forbidden then it's allowed.

Interpretation of a contract term that could be considered ambiguous (not that there is any ambiguity in NRCoT 14.2) should favour the customer.

Nowhere in the public domain does it say your second ticket must be of a particular type. Or that certain types of ticket are excluded from 14.2

I would agree with that.

It's quite possible that the newly written terms weren't intended to allow the linking of season tickets together without a stop, but now that the change has been made and adopted it's "the law" until the law is changed again. It may well requiring an information sheet / update / training memo to make them aware.

One thing that did strike me as interesting is the "first station / last station" business

If you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger or rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid.

So under the old scheme, a London to Oxford season ticket and a Didcot to Swindon single would have been fine on a train not calling at Didcot - for example, someone who live in Oxford and commuted from there to London but was going out partying (lucky chap!) one evening in Swindon would have been fine on any train, but must now catch one that calls at Didcot.  I wonder if that's an intentional tightening ...

[Fourbee]

Especially as the previous incarnation - NRCOC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) section 19 - explicitly referenced the other ticket(s) being "normal" tickets and now that term has, in effect, been deleted in section 14 of the new NRCOT^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Travel).

They should employ better lawyers/proofreaders if that was not the intent as I am in agreement, there is no ambiguity about the phrase "another Ticket".

And before "the railway" tells me it's not, a Day Travelcard is a daily Zonal ticket IMO^▸ ('in my opinion') which will enable me to do my own splits if necessary (as you can't buy boundary zone tickets online).

[Fourbee]

So under the old scheme, a London to Oxford season ticket and a Didcot to Swindon single would have been fine on a train not calling at Didcot - for example, someone who live in Oxford and commuted from there to London but was going out partying (lucky chap!) one evening in Swindon would have been fine on any train, but must now catch one that calls at Didcot.  I wonder if that's an intentional tightening ...

That's the way I read it as well.