Split season tickets at Didcot and the the new Conditions of Travel

[whole diary]

[Tim]

The NRCoT are right. Staff at Didcot Parkway are wrong. If something in a contract term is not explicitly forbidden then it's allowed.

Interpretation of a contract term that could be considered ambiguous (not that there is any ambiguity in NRCoT 14.2) should favour the customer.

Nowhere in the public domain does it say your second ticket must be of a particular type. Or that certain types of ticket are excluded from 14.2

Having had a (very polite) run disagreement over a valid split ticket combination being refused sale to me at Bath Spa about 10 years ago, despite showing a copy of the NRCoT which clearly permitted the split, I concluded that the NRCoT are not a major part of the training ticketing staff receive.  They seemed to be denying me the ticket split on the basis of their own sense of right and wrong - "it wouldn't be fair", "paying less for your journey than the real price is equivalent to fraud" - rather than on the basis of the law.  

Remember your ticket validity is determined by law not by what staff tell you.

[Fourbee]

I doubt Oxonhutch is going to get the right answer/reassurances from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) in time for his purchase at the end of the year.

Worst case scenario: the season tickets get confiscated by a guard, in an instant you're over 8 grand down, needing to buy new tickets and facing a battle with the highly efficient customer services.

Though I may have found a loophole

NRCOT^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Travel) 18.2
If for any reason your Ticket is invalid, Train Company staff may withdraw
it unless it is held on an electronic device or payment card. Where your Ticket
is withdrawn you will be given a receipt.

...so using the logic at Didcot Parkway, Season tickets cannot be confiscated because they are not a Ticket!

[ChrisB]

And before "the railway" tells me it's not, a Day Travelcard is a daily Zonal ticket IMO^▸ ('in my opinion') which will enable me to do my own splits if necessary (as you can't buy boundary zone tickets online).

Hmm, only within the zones, IMO.

An out-zonal Travelcard (say from Oxford) would only be zonal within the 1-6 zones marked on the ticket - so an extension from another part of zone 6 (say to Colchester) would apply, by an extension from Didscot-Swindon, or Oxford - North wouldn't, and you'd still need to stop at the point your Travelcard was valid, IMO

[Fourbee]

And before "the railway" tells me it's not, a Day Travelcard is a daily Zonal ticket IMO^▸ ('in my opinion') which will enable me to do my own splits if necessary (as you can't buy boundary zone tickets online).

Hmm, only within the zones, IMO.

An out-zonal Travelcard (say from Oxford) would only be zonal within the 1-6 zones marked on the ticket - so an extension from another part of zone 6 (say to Colchester) would apply, by an extension from Didscot-Swindon, or Oxford - North wouldn't, and you'd still need to stop at the point your Travelcard was valid, IMO

Yep, agree with that. In a lot of cases ticket offices would not issue the boundary zone ticket and just issue it from the last station in zone 6 anyway so this tidies that up.

[TM]

One thing that did strike me as interesting is the "first station / last station" business

If you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger or rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid.

So under the old scheme, a London to Oxford season ticket and a Didcot to Swindon single would have been fine on a train not calling at Didcot - for example, someone who live in Oxford and commuted from there to London but was going out partying (lucky chap!) one evening in Swindon would have been fine on any train, but must now catch one that calls at Didcot.  I wonder if that's an intentional tightening ...

I think you are reading too much into it.  For the season ticket the last station from which it is valid is Didcot so the combination will still be valid. 





Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.

[JayMac]

Indeed. If the tickets are valid at an intermediate station on a permitted route then splitting at that intermediate station is fine.

So, as an example, a London Terminals to Oxford Season can be combined with a Culham to Swindon ticket (of any type, including another Season) with the split point being Didcot, where they are both valid. And with one (at least) being a Season you can take direct services between London and Swindon that don't call at Didcot.

[ChrisB]

Why have they used "last" in the blurb then?

Surely that means the last station at which your season is vslid - Oxford - in this case. So its referring to using a further ticket as an extension *beyond* the "last" station, Oxford.

If they meant any station before the "last" station, surely they wouldn't have used "last" at all?

[JayMac]

Using my example, the last station where the first ticket is valid, for the journey being made, is Didcot. For the second ticket the first station where the ticket is valid, for the journey being made, is also Didcot.

Both tickets are valid at Didcot, and the example journey is on a permitted route for both tickets. Ergo, the split and no need to call at Didcot is allowed.

To adduce from Condition 14.2 that you can only split at the destination/origin stations named on the tickets isn't correct. The condition mentions Rovers. What are their destination/origin stations?

14.1, 14.2 and break of journey conditions are there to make journey opportunities more flexible. A passenger benefit. That you may save money by splitting is a bonus. There are many cases using 14.1 where splitting yields no saving or would cost more than a through ticket

If the intention of the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) had been to limit split ticket opportunities to prevent people saving money, they would have found a way for the RDG^▸ (Rail Delivery Group, or Reading station, depending on context) to word the NRCoT accordingly. I suspect they wanted to have something codified that did limit splitting to undercut the through ticket price, but couldn't reach agreement with the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and Transport Focus on a suitably legally watertight wording.

The fares disparities that lead to split ticket savings are the fault of the industry itself. Passengers having the right to take advantage of such disparities are wholly justified in doing so. Thus, such rights are codified in the NRCoT.

[t0m]

Under the new National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCOT^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Travel)) two Season Tickets can be used in the way the OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) states provided they cover the entire journey. There is no need for trains to call at the split point.

This is a relaxing of the previous rule regarding split Seasons. Prior to October 2016 the train you were on had to call at the split point when using two Season Tickets. The wording of Condition 14.2 in the new NRCoT says nothing about what the second ticket should or must be. So it can be any ticket type, including Season.

So, in your case tOm, what you are proposing is fine. Split your Seasons at Didcot Parkway and travel on services between London Paddington <> Swindon/Stroud that pass through Didcot.

Wow.. what a great thread I started! Thanks for confirmation, and apols that I missed all of this. Didn't quite expect such a reception! And great news that I can now take the non-stopping trains as well as the stopping ones and split at Didcot.

I'm still not clear whether it would be worth taking the risk of buying a split ticket at Maidenhead though. Would save me £400! I rarely take a train that stops at Didcot..but they all go through it obviously!

[JayMac]

Just one note of caution. There are a minority of rail staff out there who will be unaware of what's allowed when it comes to split tickets. Staff training in the NRCoT is woeful across all Train Operating Companies. Some staff will be unaware of the recent changes to the Conditions.

And sadly, some staff will adamantly claim that the tickets you hold, or propose to purchase, are not valid for the intended journey(s) despite fully complying with the NRCoT.

[ChrisB]

Available at stations, my advise would be to carry a copy over the next few months...I am

[TonyK]

If something in a contract term is not explicitly forbidden then it's allowed.

This is like the difference between the free evangelical churches, where anything goes unless it is explicitly banned, and the Plymouth Brethren, where everything is forbidden unless it's compulsory.

[Tim]

Available at stations, my advise would be to carry a copy over the next few months...I am

good advice, but not always sufficient.  I've had splits refused despite showing the relevant part of the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage)

[ChrisB]

Then provide name & address details plus some ID and stand ground.

[JayMac]

Then provide name & address details plus some ID and stand ground.

With this cautionary tale from someone who stood their ground...

Had a GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) TM^▸ (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context) call BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) who met me at my destination.

TM ruined a Pullman meal, had me speaking to God knows who on her phone, embarrassed me in front of fellow diners and Pullman staff. Then handed me to BTP at destination. All because she wouldn't accept the split tickets I had were valid and allowed by the Conditions of Carriage (as was).

BTP were happy with my explanation of validity and were perplexed why they were even called. I was somewhat miffed that they let my accuser go before I got to explain my side and counter her assertions.

Never saw that TM again though. Hopefully she's found a role more suited to her people skills.