Cleaners Strike on GWR?

[whole diary]

[1st fan]

Worked for a firm that was taken over and they wanted to make savings everywhere. Looked at things as diverse as cleaning, stationary, catering etc. When it came to the catering there was a guy running the operation who had been doing so for years. He was told that his last accounts would be sent to companies bidding to run the staff restaurant. The idea being that they could then make him and his staff redundant and save money. Every company who looked at his books said they couldn't compete on those numbers and backed off. I believe he's still there.

[ellendune]

This from the Guardian puts a good reason for this strike.

Extracts below.

The words "slave labour" come to mind.

I’m a cleaner on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) trains. We’re striking because we’re treated unfairly


As you take a train home for Christmas over the next few days, spare a thought for those of us who make sure you’re not sitting in the remains of the last passenger’s mince pie. I work as a cleaner for Great Western Railway – albeit via an agency they use to employ us, Servest UK^▸ (United Kingdom). Last week we travelled to the GWR head office to challenge the company over our terrible terms and conditions.

When I’m too sick to work, I have two choices: either I use my annual leave allowance or I don’t get paid. If I don’t get paid, I can’t pay my rent, so I have to borrow money from a payday loan company. If I borrow money it’s difficult to earn enough to pay it back – but for me it’s worse to waste annual leave because then I can’t use it to go home and visit my family.

..snip...

We want the same rights as people who are employed by GWR directly. Sick pay is the most important thing for many of us, but we also want the Christmas and new year bonuses that all those directly employed by GWR get. Some of us haven’t been able to visit our families for 18 months and we want annual leave entitlements to match those of our fellow cleaners who don’t work for Servest.

For some people, things are even worse than they are for me. Even though they have cleaned GWR trains for years, they are agency workers with zero-hours contracts and have barely any rights at all.

...snip...

[chrisr_75]

This from the Guardian puts a good reason for this strike.

Extracts below.

The words "slave labour" come to mind.

I’m a cleaner on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) trains. We’re striking because we’re treated unfairly


As you take a train home for Christmas over the next few days, spare a thought for those of us who make sure you’re not sitting in the remains of the last passenger’s mince pie. I work as a cleaner for Great Western Railway – albeit via an agency they use to employ us, Servest UK^▸ (United Kingdom). Last week we travelled to the GWR head office to challenge the company over our terrible terms and conditions.

When I’m too sick to work, I have two choices: either I use my annual leave allowance or I don’t get paid. If I don’t get paid, I can’t pay my rent, so I have to borrow money from a payday loan company. If I borrow money it’s difficult to earn enough to pay it back – but for me it’s worse to waste annual leave because then I can’t use it to go home and visit my family.

..snip...

We want the same rights as people who are employed by GWR directly. Sick pay is the most important thing for many of us, but we also want the Christmas and new year bonuses that all those directly employed by GWR get. Some of us haven’t been able to visit our families for 18 months and we want annual leave entitlements to match those of our fellow cleaners who don’t work for Servest.

For some people, things are even worse than they are for me. Even though they have cleaned GWR trains for years, they are agency workers with zero-hours contracts and have barely any rights at all.

...snip...

Whilst I am generally a supporter of a relatively lightly regulated workplace and taxation system, I cannot get my head around the use of zero hours contracts in circumstances like this and feel they are being abused by some of these agencies and by proxy the companies who engage these agencies. These contracts were never intended for and neither are they suitable for low paid workers in such circumstances - presumably GWR have a basic need for a fixed number of cleaners each day, so why not just employ the requisite number?! Or at least force their service provider to engage them on a decent T&C's. I think these guys have a valid and sensible reason for taking industrial action.

[phile]

I blame the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) for all this outsourcing, and this includes GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Customer Services, for wanting things done on the cheap and exploiting the workers involved.   It all rebounds back on the TOC and tarnishes any reputation they might have, but how many people are aware of all this outsourcing. 

[Tim]

Of course the cleaners are not employed by GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).  They are ultimately contracted to GWR, but of course GWR is really just a contractor/franchisee itself.  

As so often the case, the buck stops with the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).  Why doesn't the franchise agreement specify - "all staff including agency staff to get living wage and no zero hours contracts except for work that is genuinely irregular (like rail replacement buses perhaps)"?

Of course these is also the fact that many of these workers will not be native British but will be citizens of poorer EU^» (European Union - about) countries.  I am not sure were I stand on unlimited freedom of movement, but if we are going to have if it would be good if it came with some protection against exploitation.

 

[chrisr_75]

Absolutely. Although I think the issue here firmly lies with GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) rather than DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) - First Group really ought to act with some sense of corporate conscience when engaging outsourcing agencies to ensure their employees receive fair and decent treatment. The low paid often do essential jobs which underpin whole organisations (cleaning, administrative jobs, security etc) and really should not be undervalued and exploited. I'm not saying they should get £1000/day, but a decent living wage and respectful treatment really don't cost very much at all.

[froome]

Deregulation and franchising was inevitably going to lead to the exploitation of the poorest paid and least unionised sections of the workforce. Both DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have a responsibility here, and both are culpable, though in the end it is the government who bear the ultimate responsibility.

Having seen the state that some trains are left in by their passengers, particularly late at night, I'm aware of just what an awful job being a train cleaner is. I wonder how many on this forum would choose to do their job based on their current terms.

[chrisr_75]

Deregulation and franchising was inevitably going to lead to the exploitation of the poorest paid and least unionised sections of the workforce. Both DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have a responsibility here, and both are culpable, though in the end it is the government who bear the ultimate responsibility.

Having seen the state that some trains are left in by their passengers, particularly late at night, I'm aware of just what an awful job being a train cleaner is. I wonder how many on this forum would choose to do their job based on their current terms.

You don't need unions for a company to act with a little conscience, just sensible management and shareholders. I think this dispute is squarely at First Group's door - they chose to outsource, so should have ensured that the company they engaged acted with a modicum of decency that their own, direct employees are afforded. The company I work for (in a mostly non-unionised industry) expect all third party suppliers to abide by their code of conduct and other policies, so it can be done and done without significant union intervention.

Completely agree with your second point. Hotels are even worse I believe!

[Trowres]

Before too long the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) will be consulting on the next franchise. A good time to suggest that the new specification includes clauses to ensure that agency staff are procured on terms that do not offend anyone with a sense of fair play.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Meanwhile: I'm not paid during my breaks, and I'm not paid by my employer if I'm off sick.

And I'm not on a 'zero hours contract'.   

[ellendune]

Meanwhile: I'm not paid during my breaks, and I'm not paid by my employer if I'm off sick.

And I'm not on a 'zero hours contract'.   

Do you not get Statutory Sick Pay?

[Chris from Nailsea]

Yes: that's all I get.  And that's why I don't go sick - no matter how rough I might be feeling.  Better to spread my germs around the workplace, that's my view! 

[Tim]

First Group really ought to act with some sense of corporate conscience when engaging outsourcing agencies to ensure their employees receive fair and decent treatment.

I think that view of stock market listed companies is naïve.  The job of such a company is to make money for its shareholders.  In fact if they choose to put customers or staff ahead of shareholders that would actually be illegal.  It isn't that First Group is immoral it is that they are amoral.  The only way to get them to treat their agency staff better is to persuade them that their current conduct is damaging their shareholders through perhaps reputational damage or to make it a legal requirement. 

Sure there are plenty of companies that treat their staff well, but they don't do it because of this mythical "corporate conscience".  They do it because they see the shareholder value in retaining happy staff.  Cleaners unfortunately, are seen as replaceable units of unskilled labour and so the normal considerations of wanting to retain them and keep them happy carry less weight than with other workers. 

[ellendune]

I think that view of stock market listed companies is naïve.  The job of such a company is to make money for its shareholders.  In fact if they choose to put customers or staff ahead of shareholders that would actually be illegal.  It isn't that First Group is immoral it is that they are amoral.  The only way to get them to treat their agency staff better is to persuade them that their current conduct is damaging their shareholders through perhaps reputational damage or to make it a legal requirement. 

Sure there are plenty of companies that treat their staff well, but they don't do it because of this mythical "corporate conscience".  They do it because they see the shareholder value in retaining happy staff.  Cleaners unfortunately, are seen as replaceable units of unskilled labour and so the normal considerations of wanting to retain them and keep them happy carry less weight than with other workers. 

I think what you say is wrong in law, but is in line with the culture of our time. The the legal duty of a company is not to make money; it is to carry out the objects of the company as stated in its memorandum and articles of association (mem & arts).  Of course the company has to make money for its shareholders as well, but that is not its purpose. 

I rather hope that the mem & arts for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) say something about providing a passenger train service.   

When companies loose sight of their legal purpose then they do poor customer service. If you treat your staff poorly they are  less likely to treat your customers well.

Classic case is Southern whose staff relations at the moment are so poor they cannot run a service. 

Of course when it comes to executives the directors somehow see the need to provide (perhaps more than) adequate pay and conditions.  So why not the people at the sharp end who actually have to deal with their customers.

The creation of a limited liability company as a separate legal entity has privileges in law and so it is not unreasonable that there should be a quid pro quo to society. 

[ChrisB]

Not sure why you mention llc companies - the ones we are discussing are all Plc...