Questions about these screens ...

[whole diary]

[Bmblbzzz]

As for the screens themselves, they often seem to say only that they have no information "today" due to a data failure. Today seems to be a lot of days.

The design of the machines is somewhat misleading too; why is the emergency communication button green rather than, say, red? Or why does it not have some recognizable symbol on it? A couple of times my son, when he was small, pressed the green button thinking it was the "tell me when the next train's coming" button. I'm sure the green colour, as well as the prominent position, misled him. The operator who responded – seems to be a railway person not a 999 operator – was quite understanding; apart from the time they didn't respond at all, which was good at the time but kind of worrying, really.

[paul7575]

Yellow line: I thought every platform which fast trains pass without stopping, even occasionally, had one. I would have taken the absence of a yellow line to mean that all trains stop or pass slowly.

A yellow line is only actually required if passenger trains pass at speeds over 100 mph, and freight at speeds over 60 mph, as per the published rail group standards.   
http://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/GIRT7016%20Iss%205.pdf
The vast majority of yellow lines you see are additional to the laid down rules, and absence of a line should actually be the normal situation.  The boy who cried wolf...

Paul

[grahame]

Yellow line: I thought every platform which fast trains pass without stopping, even occasionally, had one. I would have taken the absence of a yellow line to mean that all trains stop or pass slowly.

There are threshold(s) above which, I believe, it's mandatory.   As Melksham's on a curve and HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) pass at only around a half of their top speed, and as passenger numbers are very low (or were), there is no yellow line.  We did ask for one, but the request was turned down - not on the cost of painting it, but on the grounds of the increased maintenance costs to keep it clean.

With three trains an hour on recent Saturdays, two non-stop, and plentiful people gathering for a stopping service which typically arrives just under 20 minutes after an express has passed through, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) / Network Rail may wish to reconsider this.  Both organisations were represented at a site meeting at Melksham Station on 17th October and although the focus was looking ahead to future passenger numbers and trains, current issues including safety concerns were mentioned.

Added ...

A yellow line is only actually required if passenger trains pass at speeds over 100 mph, and freight at speeds over 60 mph, as per the published rail group standards.   
http://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/GIRT7016%20Iss%205.pdf
The vast majority of yellow lines you see are additional to the laid down rules, and absence of a line should actually be the normal situation.  The boy who cried wolf...

Paul

Thanks Paul - confirms they are not required at Melksham

[IndustryInsider]

Any temporary loss of signal seems to show the 'out of order' screen, so I've seen one working one minute, not the next, and then come back on again.  I'm not sure having a 'next train not stopping' message would be a great deal of use as they have nowhere near the same impact as the orange LED Next Train Indicator screens which can be seen from thirty or forty metres away.  Though perhaps if they could be configured to make an announcement to such an effect on the really small stations it might be beneficial?

[bobm]

I could understand the argument about the cost of maintaining the yellow line if it was in isolation, however there is also a white line which presumably also needs upkeep.  Would the incremental cost of maintaining the yellow line be so great if done at the same time as the white?

[chuffed]

All you would have needed in maintenance costs for any sort of line (yellow or white) in Ian Allen Spotter days would have been 3 small boys in short trousers, a chilly day, and a bottle of Tizer each !

[grahame]

I could understand the argument about the cost of maintaining the yellow line if it was in isolation, however there is also a white line which presumably also needs upkeep.  Would the incremental cost of maintaining the yellow line be so great if done at the same time as the white?

The white lines are "road side" and were painted by Wiltshire Council.  Most of them are on the council's land, but the final 8 feet or so to the station gate are actually on Network Rail land - as is the front half of each of the car parking spaces also (re) painted by Wiltshire Council.  So presumably it would be a different maintenance team?

All you would have needed in maintenance costs for any sort of line (yellow or white) in Ian Allen Spotter days would have been 3 small boys in short trousers, a chilly day, and a bottle of Tizer each !

But these days you need professional raimen certified to work nearer the tracks than passengers / volunteers are allowed until the train has pulled in.

[bobm]

I was thinking of the white line on the platform edge.

[grahame]

Going back to the issue that caused the question, I would have thought the driver of a fast through train should sound his horn if there are passengers close to the platform edge, or are heading in that direction. More so if the driver knows that the route is somewhat unusual, so passengers are less likely to be expecting the fast service.

He/she did!

It is a bit of an optical illusion but an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) approaching from the south does not appear to be going that fast when it gets close to the platform at Melksham.  In reality it is probably doing 40 to 60mph.

Approaching from the south, trains to round a curve (that's where they have slower), under a bridge, and behind a building which is about 2 metres from the old platform edge.    They then "burst" upon the platform.  With the bridge and building in the way, a sounded horn appears distant and muffled, and isn't going to be associate with the appearance of a train within seconds.  And the presence of the building (and fence and bushes between the building and the platform edge) reduces visibility of passengers to train and of train (driver) to people on the platform.

I was thinking of the white line on the platform edge.

Oh gosh yes - hadn't really though of that as a line!

[LiskeardRich]

Yellow line: I thought every platform which fast trains pass without stopping, even occasionally, had one. I would have taken the absence of a yellow line to mean that all trains stop or pass slowly.

Truro is the only station in cornwall with yellow lines. Many stations are missed on various services and of course ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) and freight.

[stuving]

And then there's the Design Standards for Accessible Railway Stations, that franchisees have to sign up to. A mixture of provisions from the PRM^▸ (Persons with Reduced Mobility) TSI, national standards and laws, and its own guides to good practice. Most only come into play for new work, variously defined.

For displays it has a lot to say about visibility, including the need for low-level ones, which the help points should address. For help points it is more concerned that there should actually be helpful help in response of the button press. On the design of the box itself, it includes:

M1. Code of Practice guidance
f. Operators should ensure that:
• the help point can be located easily;
• the location does not impede pedestrian traffic;
• controls are within comfortable reach range;
• the force required to operate the controls is kept to a minimum and that controls are palm-operable;
• the buttons contrast well with the background and that their function is described both in text and tactile form;
• the buttons have a minimum diameter of 20 mm;
• the person providing the help can be heard (localised acoustic consideration); and
• a visual indicator lamp indicates to a hearing impaired person that their call has been answered.

On platforms, the TSI has a lot about how much space is needed for two wheelchairs to pass safely, and what obstructions in the desirable width are acceptable. On deliniations, visible and tactile, the TSI's requirements:

S1.European standards
7. The danger area of a platform commences at the rail side edge of the platform and is defined as the area where passengers are not allowed to stand when trains are passing or arriving.
8. The illuminance level of the external areas of the station shall be sufficient to facilitate way finding and to highlight the changes of level, doors and entrances.
9.The boundary of the danger area, furthest from the rail side edge of the platform, shall have a visual marking and tactile walking surface indicators.
10. The visual marking shall be a contrasting, slip-resistant, warning line with a minimum width of 100 mm.
11. Tactile walking surface indicators can be one of the two types:
• an attention pattern indicating a hazard at the boundary of the danger area
• a guiding pattern indicating a path of travel at the safe side of the platform
12. The material at the rail side edge of the platform shall contrast with the darkness of the gap. This material shall be slip resistant.
13. The end of the platform shall either be fitted with a barrier that prevents public access or shall have a visual marking and tactile walking surface indicators with an attention pattern indicating a hazard.

... are followed by several items of guidance:

S1. Platforms – platform design
e. The appropriate tactile surface should be installed along the entire length of a platform when any rebuilding or resurfacing takes place. See Guidance on the Use of Tactile Paving Surfaces for further guidance.
f. Where the tactile surface is installed on an island platform, it should be on both faces of the island platform. It should never be installed on one face and not the other.
g. The platform edge tactile warning surface can be of any colour, except red, and the colour should provide a good contrast with the surrounding paved area.
h. The tactile surface should be 400 mm deep, extend the full length of the platform, and be laid parallel to, and immediately behind, the platform edge coper, where this is 760 mm from the platform edge. Platforms that are only partially installed with tactile strips should be avoided.
m. Where the permissible or enhanced permissible speed on the adjacent line is greater than 100 mph, a yellow line should be provided on the platform, together with warning signs. The yellow line shall be positioned so that people standing immediately behind the line are at least 1500 mm away from the platform edge.

(... and yes, that last one isn't listed as a UK^▸ (United Kingdom) standard.)

If Melksham gets a proper-sized platform, this stuff would presumably come into play.

[bobm]

Yellow line: I thought every platform which fast trains pass without stopping, even occasionally, had one. I would have taken the absence of a yellow line to mean that all trains stop or pass slowly.

Truro is the only station in cornwall with yellow lines. Many stations are missed on various services and of course ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) and freight.

Slightly flippant, but Newquay does.

Now if the platform at Melksham is rebuilt could this style be adopted and be low upkeep?

[grahame]

If Melksham gets a proper-sized platform, this stuff would presumably come into play.

Yes.

Oh - sorry to give such a short answer to such a long reply ... but a planned platform extension would be to modern standard, and that means the current platform has to have the same standards too.    It starts with the platform requiring to slope away from the track and not towards it, and for the height of the platform at train edge being raised to a reasonable level.  Unfortunately, although these two adjustments are in opposite directions, they're not equal and opposite, so then there's the question of levels at the station entrance ...

A tactile strip is part of the spec ... and once that's in, it will perform the same function as a yellow line in reminding people to keep back. So a yellow line 'in the meantime' might be a bit of paint and no long term maintenance?

Truro is the only station in cornwall with yellow lines. Many stations are missed on various services and of course ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock)
and freight.

How many have tactile stuff?

[LiskeardRich]

Yellow line: I thought every platform which fast trains pass without stopping, even occasionally, had one. I would have taken the absence of a yellow line to mean that all trains stop or pass slowly.

Truro is the only station in cornwall with yellow lines. Many stations are missed on various services and of course ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) and freight.

Slightly flippant, but Newquay does.

Now if the platform at Melksham is rebuilt could this style be adopted and be low upkeep?

I forgot about Newquay, probably due to all those high speed through trains.

To answer Grahame the stations I've seen staffed are Penzance St erth, redruth, Truro, st Austell, Par (am only) Bodmin and liskeard. The rest unstaffed and also the ones that get most non stop services

[grahame]

To answer Grahame the stations I've seen staffed are Penzance St erth, redruth, Truro, st Austell, Par (am only) Bodmin and liskeard. The rest unstaffed and also the ones that get most non stop services

Err - I said "tactile stuff" meaning those bobbly lighter coloured stone panels ... not tactile staff    (Very interesting to know which stations are manned though!)