XC December 2017 timetable consultation

[whole diary]

[paul7575]

This has just been published, the significant proposal that affects the South West is to extend most Man Picc to Bristol services through to Exeter St Davids to provide 2 XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) tph on that route section.

The flip side of the proposal is to reduce the number of through services to Paignton, so that the Man Picc to Exeter "core route" can be run with the same number of units as used before.

Oh and the Bath early morning starter will be withdrawn.

https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/media/1470/crosscountry-future-timetable-consultation-document.pdf

Hope this is of interest.

Paul

[grahame]

Oh and the Bath early morning starter will be withdrawn under the proposal

With regard that, they say:

To enable these capacity improvements on busy trains, some decrements to current service patterns will be necessary, where demand is comparatively light and alternative journey solutions or services are available, for example:

Hmmmm ... strikes me as an inaccurate comment as far as the Bath train is concerned.

a) What is the train going to be doing instead - where will its capacity be redeployed?   Strikes me that at 06:10 in the morning from Bath - to become an 06:30 Bristol starter - this is nothing today with moving capacity to somewhere else.

b) The 06:09 has allowed a Plymouth arrival at 08:33 (change at Temple Meads).    What "alternative journey solutions or services are available" to give a Plymouth arrival from Bath in time for the working day?   As far as I can see, the next journey from Bath to Plymouth (to become the first journey of the day from Bath to Plymouth won't arrive there until 10:33.

[ChrisB]

Shift times may be changing to allow staff to start at Exeter, for example. May not be the train but the crew.

[grahame]

Shift times may be changing to allow staff to start at Exeter, for example. May not be the train but the crew.

Indeed, but the consultation suggests that the train (and it's train resources they're talking about using better) is going to start at Bristol.

Interestingly, also puts back the first train arriving into Bristol Temple Meads from Bath by nearly half an hour - if these changes come into effect on the current GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) timetable (as is suggested), no arrival into BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) at 06:20 any more - the first one will be after quarter to seven.  Not sure what the alternative is for early shift workers who catch it at the moment because the next train's too late for them!

[ChrisB]

How long has it been in the timetable?

[The Tall Controller]

The one remaining up train from Paignton will be the 0702 to MAN.

The Guildford starters/terminators will also be withdrawn under these proposals.

The move would also see the longest single train journey in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) (0821 Aberdeen to Penzance) cut to start from Edbinburgh

[LiskeardRich]

This has just been published, the significant proposal that affects the South West is to extend most Man Picc to Bristol services through to Exeter St Davids to provide 2 XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) tph on that route section.

This wont mean an increase in Bristol to Exeter services. From December 2017 it is proposed that fewer Westcountry to London trains will go via Bristol, with nearly all going Berks and Hants. XC are filling the gap.

The XC HST^▸ (High Speed Train) maintenance seems to be moving from the depot near Edinburgh to the one near Newcastle, with Newcastle origin/endings for HST all services.

[JayMac]

The Bath starter has only been in the timetable since 2010. Introduced solely as an ORCATS^▸ (Operational Research Computerised Allocation of Tickets to Services) raid and not to provide improved journey oportunities. I guess the finances of this have been marginal.

Unlike the Paigntons and Guildfords, the Bath starter isnt a franchise commitment so won't require DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) approval to remove.

[paul7575]

How long has it been in the timetable?

[Bath XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))] It was started in May 2010, but didn't appear in a track access application until a little later, the same one that extended the alternate Reading - Southampton services.

Paul

[grahame]

The Bath starter has only been in the timetable since 2010. Introduced solely as an ORCATS^▸ (Operational Research Computerised Allocation of Tickets to Services) raid and not to provide improved journey oportunities. I guess the finances of this have been marginal.

It may not have been introduced to provide improved journey opportunities (how cynical of you to suggest that it wasn't introduced to provide an improvement though!  ) but it does provide an earlier arrival by nearly half an hour into Bristol, and no less than two hours earlier into Plymouth.   It seems ironic to me that at a time the people of Plymouth are campaigning for earlier arrivals, CrossCountry are proposing to make the first arrival possible there from Bath Spa (big place - 6 million rail journeys a year and in the South West) 2 hours later; I still don't see what my alternative that they say is available in their consultation document actually is (I use this service sometimes). Travel down the night before and stay in a hotel?  Drive?

[ChrisB]

Difficult to tell, as no other TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) will release their Dec17 timetable for about 11 months!

[froome]

Shift times may be changing to allow staff to start at Exeter, for example. May not be the train but the crew.

Indeed, but the consultation suggests that the train (and it's train resources they're talking about using better) is going to start at Bristol.

Interestingly, also puts back the first train arriving into Bristol Temple Meads from Bath by nearly half an hour - if these changes come into effect on the current GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) timetable (as is suggested), no arrival into BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) at 06:20 any more - the first one will be after quarter to seven.  Not sure what the alternative is for early shift workers who catch it at the moment because the next train's too late for them!

It also means that the first train will not be a high speed but a local service which is already getting pretty full. My partner uses it every day to get to work (she catches it because it is the only train that she can get a seat on, anything later is too packed). It used to be fairly quiet, but in the last few years it has become much busier. The thought of it also taking extra passengers from the 06.09 is deeply worrying.

[IndustryInsider]

The phrase 'rearranging the deckchairs' springs to mind.  Though it's a complete waste sending a voyager to and from Guildford every day for a handful of passengers, so if the franchise isn't going to do a 'proper job' like it used to of connecting places like Portsmouth and Brighton, concentrating on providing the core stations and journey legs with a few more seats a day is better than nothing I suppose.  No substitute for a proper increase in capacity with new trains which will be desperately needed come the new long term franchise.

[JayMac]

An opportunity for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to use the path by introducing a new service from 21017, perhaps starting back at Westbury.

Could utilise rolling stock from the Thames Valley cascade.

Oh, wait a minute...

[ellendune]

An opportunity for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to use the path by introducing a new service from 21017, perhaps starting back at Westbury.

Could utilise rolling stock from the Thames Valley cascade.

Oh, wait a minute...

I didn't think the cascade had been delayed that much