21 October 2016 - 19:03 Paddington to Penzance terminated at Reading

[whole diary]

[ellendune]

Could you change the rules to void any booked seats not claimed 5 minutes before leaving? Then you could release these seats?

[JayMac]

Train Manager assaulted at Reading apparently.

Alleged rather than apparent.

Rail staff sources on other forums allege no assault occurred.

[IndustryInsider]

I was just quoting from official industry information feeds, so know nothing more than that.

[broadgage]

Could you change the rules to void any booked seats not claimed 5 minutes before leaving? Then you could release these seats?

Not certain how this would help. It seems beyond reasonable doubt that every seat was taken on the train in question, reserved or not.
Under conditions such as these, reservations are of limited use as many simply ignore them. I recall a journey made on Maundy Thursday some years ago, I had booked a seat but found it occupied by someone else who simply refused to move. The staff felt unable to intervene, so being reluctant to give the usurper a good thump, I had to stand to Taunton. Excellent value for £150 ! Never again ! That was some years ago, but reports suggest that it has got worse not better since then.

[TaplowGreen]

Could you change the rules to void any booked seats not claimed 5 minutes before leaving? Then you could release these seats?

Not certain how this would help. It seems beyond reasonable doubt that every seat was taken on the train in question, reserved or not.
Under conditions such as these, reservations are of limited use as many simply ignore them. I recall a journey made on Maundy Thursday some years ago, I had booked a seat but found it occupied by someone else who simply refused to move. The staff felt unable to intervene, so being reluctant to give the usurper a good thump, I had to stand to Taunton. Excellent value for £150 ! Never again ! That was some years ago, but reports suggest that it has got worse not better since then.

As previously stated by myself and others - restrict ticket sales, compulsory reservations and managed boarding.

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, there should certainly be no cheap advances available.

[eightf48544]

What about a 20:03 to Penzance with lots of Advanced and Super Off Peaks?

[Tim]

I am reluctant to back compulsory reservation.  A key advantage of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) railway (over flights and foreign railways for example) is that those with an expensive ticket and who are prepared to stand can get on any train. 

hopefully some stock increases post IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) will allow a carrot and stick approach of high fares only on the crowded train and some bargains on alternative trains. 

[TaplowGreen]

What about a 20:03 to Penzance with lots of Advanced and Super Off Peaks?

Extend the 1945 or 2035 from Paddington beyond Plymouth to Penzance?

[Thatcham Crossing]

hopefully some stock increases post IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) will allow a carrot and stick approach of high fares only on the crowded train and some bargains on alternative trains.

Demand/yield management pricing as employed by the airlines might help? Base it on no. of seats sold.

Then, if the train is full (ie, all seats sold), you could end up paying a very high price to stand.

I appreciate this doesn't solve the problem of those who have no reservation, and just rock up expecting to get on, but it seems there are no perfect solutions here 

[IndustryInsider]

What about a 20:03 to Penzance with lots of Advanced and Super Off Peaks?

Extend the 1945 or 2035 from Paddington beyond Plymouth to Penzance?

How busy are the 19:45 and 20:35 departures on these 'holiday' Friday's that cause all the trouble?  If there's spare space on them, that might be a possible solution for selected Friday's only, but you'd have to find crew and you'd be looking at roughly 1:30am and 2:30am arrivals in Penzance.  I would imagine the 19:45 is pretty full already and the 20:35 would simply be too late to be of much attraction to the Cornish travellers (how many are typically aboard when it arrives at Plymouth now?).

There are potential issues with train maintenance and availability.  Both those trains are stabled and maintained for the night at Laira depot in Plymouth, so if they went through to Penzance then you would need to make allowances for what they both do next morning and ensure Long Rock at Penzance has capacity to deal with them, as well as diagramming crew of course.

Perhaps worth a try though on selected dates though, to see what difference it makes.  Or at least trying the simpler and more cost effective option of running a Plymouth to Penzance late evening multiple unit train to connect with one of those two trains from London.

When the new trains arrive, perhaps that will give the flexibility to run later trains down to Penzance with a 10-car splitting at Plymouth?

[TaplowGreen]

What about a 20:03 to Penzance with lots of Advanced and Super Off Peaks?

Extend the 1945 or 2035 from Paddington beyond Plymouth to Penzance?

How busy are the 19:45 and 20:35 departures on these 'holiday' Friday's that cause all the trouble?  If there's spare space on them, that might be a possible solution for selected Friday's only, but you'd have to find crew and you'd be looking at roughly 1:30am and 2:30am arrivals in Penzance.  I would imagine the 19:45 is pretty full already and the 20:35 would simply be too late to be of much attraction to the Cornish travellers (how many are typically aboard when it arrives at Plymouth now?).

There are potential issues with train maintenance and availability.  Both those trains are stabled and maintained for the night at Laira depot in Plymouth, so if they went through to Penzance then you would need to make allowances for what they both do next morning and ensure Long Rock at Penzance has capacity to deal with them, as well as diagramming crew of course.

Perhaps worth a try though on selected dates though, to see what difference it makes.  Or at least trying the simpler and more cost effective option of running a Plymouth to Penzance late evening multiple unit train to connect with one of those two trains from London.

When the new trains arrive, perhaps that will give the flexibility to run later trains down to Penzance with a 10-car splitting at Plymouth?

To clarify it's not just "Holiday" Fridays that cause the trouble - the 1903 is seriously overcrowded every Friday, it's just that around holiday times it gets even more inhuman. The challenges around timings/maintenance you highlight are reasonable however I would say not insurmountable.............in any case it cannot be allowed to continue like this - I wonder how much Friday's escapade cost GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)? Perhaps it is a hit in the pocket which will make the difference and galvanise some action. To be honest, this situation has been going on so long with this service I am amazed that no-one has come up with at least some sort of solution to mitigate it - that does not reflect well on GWR.

What frustrates a lot of people is the perception that GWR are just happily sitting back, pocketing the extra revenue by the currently irresponsible operation of this service and doing nothing about it.

I'd be delighted to be corrected of course, if anyone "on the inside" can advise of GWRs plans to improve the situation specific to this service, that does not involve "manana, manana" because as we all know, the capacity increase provided by the new trains does not go anywhere near addressing the overcrowding if demand continues at its current rate.

[Tim]

Clearly the only decent solution is to run more trains.  Will the spare class 68s and mark IIIs not do the job? 
Surely they would be able to keep time west of Taunton or Exeter and could connect with at the 1945 from Paddington even if pathing issues mean that you wouldn't want to run them into Paddington.  If a charter operator can make a small profit and find the stock for a one off train then surely a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) could for a regular Friday only service. 

Frankly what is the point of privatisation if the capitalists are not finding a solution to these problems.  A for-profit railway might struggle to justify socially necessary but lightly used services but here we have passengers fighting (perhaps literally on occasion) for seats.  If GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) is not up to solving this then DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) should be encouraging an open access operator to meet the demand

[IndustryInsider]

To be honest, this situation has been going on so long with this service I am amazed that no-one has come up with at least some sort of solution to mitigate it - that does not reflect well on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).

What frustrates a lot of people is the perception that GWR are just happily sitting back, pocketing the extra revenue by the currently irresponsible operation of this service and doing nothing about it.

I'd be delighted to be corrected of course, if anyone "on the inside" can advise of GWRs plans to improve the situation specific to this service, that does not involve "manana, manana" because as we all know, the capacity increase provided by the new trains does not go anywhere near addressing the overcrowding if demand continues at its current rate.

It perhaps highlights the fact that there is no simple way of dealing with it given that pretty much all rolling stock is in use and virtually all of it very busy on other services.  The 19:15 Swansea service has always been terribly full in the last few years and I wonder what impact the 19:12 Bristol service via Parkway has had on that?  You could pinch the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) set that works the 17:50 Paddington to Worcester service and run that as a Turbo, but you'd need at least a 5-car to deal with passenger numbers and that results in two short formed suburban services (which are just as full).  Perhaps come next May those units could be released by the extended new electric services?

Having done that though, you need to find a path to run an extra train (hence my suggestion of a 19:12 to Bristol splitting at Reading as it doesn't mean an extra path between Paddington and Reading), or possibly the 19:18 semi-fast to Oxford could be a 10-car IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) from next summer with a portion for Oxford and a B&H^▸ (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury) portion to Westbury splitting at Reading?  Both options will upset Newbury commuters though as they're slower and later than the 19:03.

The longer term solution will be to try and segregate the commuters from the longer distance travellers but until extra stock comes along I can't see any obvious options other than the few half-solutions that we've talked about, and would in all probability have a limited effect anyway.

Even then, free train paths are very scarce and as time goes on I become more convinced that serious consideration needs to be given to Heathrow Express being stopped in the peak hours (and perhaps all day) as that would be four more main line paths per hour straight into the back pocket now that constraints at Reading have been eased considerably.

[Tim]

The Heathrow Express needs to be Axed.  Overpriced vanity service that it is.  They seem to exist solely to rip foreign visitors off with their monopoly on advertising and selling tickets at Heathrow.  It is a national disgrace. Crossrail and the Piccadilly line more than adequately serve the airport from the East. 

Trouble is that they have a access rights until 2023 so we may need to put up with them until then (although I hope Crossrail competition forces them to throw in the towel or at least sell off some paths before then)