Train Operating Companies v Trade Unions dispute - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[grahame]

1099 responses from users of Southern services to a survey by the Association of British Commuters:

https://abcommuters.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/abc-passenger-survey-results-2016.pdf

Some very interesting responses. The group was (I think) self-selecting, with those people unhappy with the current services and concerned at issues more likely to respond than those who are happy with it.   However, it paints a sombre picture that cannot realistically be so negative purely because of the sampling method.

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

I was thinking that this was another DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) incident, but is it? Don't these trains have Guards? (or whatever they're called in SWT^▸ (South West Trains) land).   Anyway, be interesting to see the outcome of SWT's investigations and how these line up with the Metro story.

http://metro.co.uk/2016/12/29/children-left-crying-on-platform-as-train-doors-close-without-warning-with-parents-on-board-6350027/

[grahame]

I was thinking that this was another DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) incident, but is it? Don't these trains have Guards?

"Paul and the children were helping Claire board the train because she’s on crutches after breaking both legs in the summer."  ... Possible scenario:   Mum's off to see Auntie Helen in Bournemouth and can't drive at the moment to Dad and the kids take her to the station to drop her off for the train.  They all go onto the platform to help, and when the train comes in, Dad tells the kids to 'sit over there' or 'stand well back' while he helps mum onto the train. Kids do exactly as told.   Stops at Hinton Admiral are rather short and as Dad's helping mum find a seat she's happy with on the train, the guard / conductor checks, sees no-one anywhere near the train, and closes the door.   

[TonyK]

Or conductor sees two children, obviously not wanting to board, and closes the doors without warning, as he always does. A word with him before boarding would have been a good idea. I'm not sure where the idea that the doors closed "much too quickly" comes from - much too quickly for the Leighton's , clearly, but if the train is at its planned departure time and all pax have boarded, why hang around? He could, on another day, have been charged a fare.

Would he have been justified in using the emergency handle here?

[grahame]

Moving back from Hinton Admiral - from the press today:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2016/dec/31/train-companies-pocket-millions-delays

Here’s a shocking fact for those of you who (like me) shivered on freezing platforms when their train was cancelled or delayed over the so-called festive period. The train operating companies can actually make a nice little profit out of your distress, so they have almost no incentive to improve the service.

As you get ready to fork out £5,000-plus for an annual season ticket on a 40-mile journey into work on a train built 30 years ago, which arrives at your destination on time approximately every solar eclipse, consider this: train operators receive a “schedule 8” payment from Network Rail when something goes wrong with the infrastructure, such as a points failure. It is designed to compensate them for the impact of poor performance on their revenue. It is estimated that last year train operators picked up £107m from Network Rail for delays. But how much was paid out to the customers who were the victims of these problems? Just £26m. It means the train operating companies profited by some £81m because something went wrong.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4077728/No-wonder-hold-ransom-Rail-unions-amassed-66MILLION-war-chest-s-planned-strikes-today.html

The RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) has property and shares totalling £53million, while the drivers' union Aslef – which is joining the six-day walkout, forcing a shutdown of the company's services – owns £13million of assets. It is feared the unions' huge reserves and the wealth of Southern Rail, whose parent company is Govia Thameslink Railway, means both sides will be able to dig in their heels and continue the dispute for months, if not years.

[TaplowGreen]

Moving back from Hinton Admiral - from the press today:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2016/dec/31/train-companies-pocket-millions-delays

Here’s a shocking fact for those of you who (like me) shivered on freezing platforms when their train was cancelled or delayed over the so-called festive period. The train operating companies can actually make a nice little profit out of your distress, so they have almost no incentive to improve the service.

As you get ready to fork out £5,000-plus for an annual season ticket on a 40-mile journey into work on a train built 30 years ago, which arrives at your destination on time approximately every solar eclipse, consider this: train operators receive a “schedule 8” payment from Network Rail when something goes wrong with the infrastructure, such as a points failure. It is designed to compensate them for the impact of poor performance on their revenue. It is estimated that last year train operators picked up £107m from Network Rail for delays. But how much was paid out to the customers who were the victims of these problems? Just £26m. It means the train operating companies profited by some £81m because something went wrong.

Yep, and I often refer to the amount of compensation received by GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) from NR^» (Network Rail - home page) when I'm delayed by hours and send them the bill for a taxi along with a (politely worded) request for a refund........to date it's always been paid. I would encourage others to do the same.

[grahame]

From the Office of Road and Rail. Click  *here* for a link to the full report.

Statement on GTR-Southern’s Driver Only Operation
5 January 2017

Ian Prosser, HM Chief Inspector of Railways, said:

"Following a thorough review of GTR-Southern’s method and implementation of Driver Only Operation, ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) is satisfied that with suitable equipment, proper procedures and competent staff in place, it is a safe method of working.

"ORR has made some recommendations for further improvements, including ensuring that CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) image quality is consistently high. GTR-Southern has accepted and is in the process of implementing these recommendations. As the safety regulator we will continue our inspections and are also working with the industry to ensure it reviews and updates its work in adopting best practice procedures, training and equipment in relation to the safe dispatch of trains."

[TaplowGreen]

Theresa May has already kiboshed this idea, according to reports last night. At least for the time being.

I thought refusing to cross other trades picket lines was banned under the law these days? So can't be encouraged by the rail unions.

It is clear the actions suggested in that article were never going to happen.

Surely a complete coincidence that that article appeared in the Daily Telegraph?! 

Didn't need the army in the end.......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/04/private-bus-firms-come-commuters-rescue-rail-unions-impose-strikes/

[IndustryInsider]

Will be interesting to see what percentage of passengers will be able to use them and what the journey times are like in comparison to the normal train.

[grahame]

http://www.1066shrimprail.org.uk/2016/12/joint-statement-issued-by-local-rail-groups/

User group voices ...

THIS IS A JOINT STATEMENT ISSUED BY ST LEONARDS & HASTINGS RAIL IMPROVEMENT / BEXHILL RAIL ACTION GROUP / ORE TRANSPORT GROUP / MARSHLINK ACTION GROUP / THREE OAKS & WINCHELSEA ACTION ON RAIL TRANSPORT (SHRIMP / BRAG / OTG / MLAG / THWART)

“None of our user groups condone the industrial action taken by the rail unions against Southern Railway, which is causing severe damage not just to everybody whose lifestyle or business is dependant on a properly managed railway, but also to the local and regional economy; there are more than 60,000 passenger journeys each week between Ore and Eastbourne stations, plus a further 20,000 on the Marshlink service. In addition many passengers go further on a daily basis.

However, we also recognise that the Department for Transport (DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)) and the operator Southern as part of Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) have played a significant part in getting everybody into this mess.

Continues

[TaplowGreen]

http://www.1066shrimprail.org.uk/2016/12/joint-statement-issued-by-local-rail-groups/

User group voices ...

THIS IS A JOINT STATEMENT ISSUED BY ST LEONARDS & HASTINGS RAIL IMPROVEMENT / BEXHILL RAIL ACTION GROUP / ORE TRANSPORT GROUP / MARSHLINK ACTION GROUP / THREE OAKS & WINCHELSEA ACTION ON RAIL TRANSPORT (SHRIMP / BRAG / OTG / MLAG / THWART)

“None of our user groups condone the industrial action taken by the rail unions against Southern Railway, which is causing severe damage not just to everybody whose lifestyle or business is dependant on a properly managed railway, but also to the local and regional economy; there are more than 60,000 passenger journeys each week between Ore and Eastbourne stations, plus a further 20,000 on the Marshlink service. In addition many passengers go further on a daily basis.

However, we also recognise that the Department for Transport (DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)) and the operator Southern as part of Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) have played a significant part in getting everybody into this mess.

Continues

The pretext for this strike was about safety and jobs. The independent regulator has ruled that there are no safety issues and we know that no jobs are going to be lost.

This is a political strike and at least one of the union leaders involved (who was apparently prepared to compromise the safety of his other members in another TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) in similar circumstances in return for a pay rise) has already indicated his wish to bring down the democratically elected Government, "drown them" I believe his delightful phrase was.

They are costing people their jobs and home lives and should get back to work.

[ellendune]

You may be right about it being a political strike. I am sure there are some in the unions who are keen on making a political point. However, I can't help coming to the conclusion that if the staff did not feel some grievance that is very real to them personally they would not have voted for a strike and they would not be so solidly supporting it.

I also think we need to remember there are two disputes here, one with the drivers and one withe the guards (or whatever they are called).

We have discussed some potential concerns of drivers further up this thread, particularly concerning the quality of CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) images. It is interesting that in their statement ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) mention image quality, so perhaps this should be a matter for further negotiations.

I do noknow what issues the guards have, but as I have said above there is obviously some real grievance.

I therefore support the view of the joint statement, but suggest that politicians stay well out of it especially from behind the scenes as they usually make these matters worse.

[onthecushions]

Will be interesting to see what percentage of passengers will be able to use them and what the journey times are like in comparison to the normal train.

It's true  that buses would have only a fraction of the capacity of an operating train service but "normal" service on the Southern now means something different.

The buses are however running, with helpful drivers doing their best to get through to destinations.

OTC

[TaplowGreen]

Will be interesting to see what percentage of passengers will be able to use them and what the journey times are like in comparison to the normal train.

It's true  that buses would have only a fraction of the capacity of an operating train service but "normal" service on the Southern now means something different.

The buses are however running, with helpful drivers doing their best to get through to destinations.

OTC

Well done to the bus companies and their drivers, who are at least giving people the opportunity to get to work and get home again afterwards.

[TonyK]

Bustitution^▸ (the practice of replacing trains with buses) as a norm is not sustainable. Given how entrenched both sides (all three when you include the government) now appear to be, it is difficult to see what the solution will be. It will have to end with an agreement between company and unions, with both sides claiming victory and magnanimity in equal measure - even wars end that way unless one side annihilates the other.