Train Operating Companies v Trade Unions dispute - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Tim]

Theresa May has already kiboshed this idea, according to reports last night. At least for the time being.

I thought refusing to cross other trades picket lines was banned under the law these days? So can't be encouraged by the rail unions.

The law is the other way round.  A picketer (and the Union) is acting illegally if he/she/they ask someone who is not in the dispute (ie because they are employed by someone different such as a sub contractor) to not cross the picket.  The person who refuses to cross might of course be subject to whatever disciplinary procedure they would ordinarily be subject to if the didn't report for duty but I don't think that they would fall foul of any trade union law themselves.  The Trade Union laws are designed to limit the rights of pickets to prevent someone from crossing a picket not to force any individual to cross a picket line. 

[chrisr_75]

Theresa May has already kiboshed this idea, according to reports last night. At least for the time being.

I thought refusing to cross other trades picket lines was banned under the law these days? So can't be encouraged by the rail unions.

It is clear the actions suggested in that article were never going to happen.

Surely a complete coincidence that that article appeared in the Daily Telegraph?! 

[ellendune]

It is an easy mistake two tory MP^▸ (Member of Parliament)'s says something is going to happen or something should happen and the Daily Telegraph assumes it will happen, because we all know that everything a couple of backbench MP's say will always be taken up by the government immediately even if it is complete fantasy.  That's right isn't it?

[Chris from Nailsea]

Hmm.    When they allegedly asked the army to run 'replacement rail services', I don't think they quite meant this:





Picture from James Bond, by the way. 

[Western Pathfinder]

That there looks to be one of them new fangled tank engines .

[SandTEngineer]

That there looks to be one of them new fangled tank engines .

Yes, and 7ft gauge toboot.....

[TaplowGreen]

If that's the Red Army I suspect certain elements of the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers)/ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) will welcome them with open arms and bunches of flowers! 

[ellendune]

If that's the Red Army I suspect certain elements of the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers)/ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) will welcome them with open arms and bunches of flowers! 

I doubt if you are right, but it is irrelevant since the red army was dissolved in 1991.  I don't think its successor the Russian Army would be very welcome by anyone.

[TonyK]

I doubt if you are right, but it is irrelevant since the red army was dissolved in 1991.  I don't think its successor the Russian Army would be very welcome by anyone.

Don't you believe it!

[TaplowGreen]

Blimey this ramps it up a bit! "Today comrades, we fight for the right to close the doors on the train......but tomorrow......"REVOLUTION!!!" 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/22/rmt-union-baron-uses-kremlin-backed-tv-channel-call-overthrow/

[Bob_Blakey]

My attention has been brought to a discussion on Twitter - and elsewhere for all I know - which paints a slightly different picture of the situation.

This alternative view seems to have been publicised by a Southern ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) driver and can be briefly summarised as follows:

The DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) platform monitoring equipment fitted to the newer rolling stock produces very high quality in-cab images which can be used to support the assertion that the procedure is perfectly safe. The RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) are therefore being 'disingenuous' (AKA^▸ (also known as) lying) when claiming that driver operation of the doors is a general safety hazard. However the equipment fitted to the older Class 377 units has cabling & optics that are unable to provide images which would pass a safety inspection. If the RMT / ASLEF concentrated on this much more specific issue then they might very well have a case that would garner greater public support.

I do not know enough about this to draw a fully objective conclusion. Some of you might like to have a look here and pass an opinion.

 

[ellendune]

The images I saw on that twitter stream did not inspire confidence.  Are those the old ones or the new? 

[ChrisB]

My assumption was the old (377s)

[Bob_Blakey]

My understanding is that the images are from one or more 377 units. If that is the case then I certainly wouldn't be able to see if it was safe to proceed.

[ChrisB]

So GTR offer a half-way house?

Always a trained No 2 on a 377, but get their way on the other more modern stock. A No 2 in normal working rostered, but in time of disruption, they may run without until the rostered No 2 can join the service