Cornwall signalling upgrade - ongoing discussion, merged topics

[whole diary]

[RailCornwall]

Got sight of the publicity leaflet for the March Redruth and environs work today. Seems that for the four days of the work First Kernow buses will accept rail tickets west of Truro on any route whether directly related to the rail network or not. So in effect free travel on FK^▸ (First Corridor (carriage)) to any rail station or destination providing a train ticket covering the approximate routing for the ticket is held. So a Journey, on buses, say to Sennen from Chacewater would be covered throughout by a Truro - Penzance Rail Ticket. 

[ChrisB]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to simply buy the equivalent bus ticket

[LiskeardRich]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to simply buy the equivalent bus ticket

Not sure off peak rail times, but peak time the £12 first day bus ticket would definitely be cheapest

[RailCornwall]

You obviously haven't seen First Kernow's fares. Most rail journeys are significantly cheaper than their bus equivalent.

[FarWestJohn]

I was going to book up a trip from Perranwell to Salisbury on 21st or 28th April. GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) site says line closed for signalling work. But when I go on the GWR site to book ticket there is no mention of a bus on travel details.  Is this work still on? If so I will re arrange to the Friday. All very confusing.

[old original]

21st - bus St Austell - Plymouth,  28th should be ok, but....

[SandTEngineer]

Lack of details might be something to do with this.... http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19385.0

[FarWestJohn]

Thanks. No wonder I get confused!

[Zoe]

Looks like phase 1 was commissioned as planned with new TD berths UM59 and DM60 (presumably for automatics UM259 and DM260) appearing in the Plymouth TD feed.

[SandTEngineer]

Photographs of the new arrangements can be seen here: http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/news---latest-reports-and-photographs

Warning: Photographs will appear lower down each day that passes from the date of this post.

[Kernowman]

It appears that most of the new signals are in position now (thought the new ones west of Truro have yet to be commissioned). I have noticed however that some of the new home signals seem quite poorly sited particularly on the down line. Home signals at Menheniot, Redruth and Hayle all appear to be sited a short distance before the stations themselves. Surely it makes more sense to position the home signals just after the stations (like what's been done at Bodmin Parkway)? This rules out the need for a train for having to stop twice, waiting at a signal can be done whilst passengers are getting on and off at a station. It can also be quite frustrating for a passenger waiting to get off to be held at a signal just short of your destination.

KM

[IndustryInsider]

Is it so the train will clear the section as it arrives at the station so the next train can enter behind it, rather than having to wait before it departs the station?  I’m assuming these extra ones are all Intermediate Block Home signals, so the ‘Home’ signal will also be in effect the ‘Section’ signal as far as the block section is concerned?

I’m sure SandTEngineer will be able to fill us in.

[SandTEngineer]

It appears that most of the new signals are in position now (thought the new ones west of Truro have yet to be commissioned). I have noticed however that some of the new home signals seem quite poorly sited particularly on the down line. Home signals at Menheniot, Redruth and Hayle all appear to be sited a short distance before the stations themselves. Surely it makes more sense to position the home signals just after the stations (like what's been done at Bodmin Parkway)? This rules out the need for a train for having to stop twice, waiting at a signal can be done whilst passengers are getting on and off at a station. It can also be quite frustrating for a passenger waiting to get off to be held at a signal just short of your destination.

KM

Signals are normally provided to allow a specified minimum headway time between trains.  There are lots of other considerations, such as sighting distance and SPAD^▸ (Signal Passed At Danger) risk mitigation.  Having a signal at the end of a station platform is potentially a SPAD risk as station duties can be a distraction, causing the driver to forget the previous warning signal.  In the case of Bodmin Parkway the starting signals have been placed a trains length ahead of the platforms and can be clearly seen by a train stopped at the station, but even then the Down signal has been provided with a banner repeater signal (probably to comply with signal minimum reading time).  However, this is not always possible due to line curvature.

So in summary, its a mix and match of issues that need to be considered at a particular site.

The new signals between Truro and St.Erth are due to be commissioned next month I believe.

[Zoe]

Signals are normally provided to allow a specified minimum headway time between trains.  There are lots of other considerations, such as sighting distance and SPAD^▸ (Signal Passed At Danger) risk mitigation.  Having a signal at the end of a station platform is potentially a SPAD risk as station duties can be a distraction, causing the driver to forget the previous warning signal.

I know this is going back a few years now but Drump Lane's Up Home seems to have been on the Plymouth side of Redruth tunnel so there must have been a significant risk back then of the driver seeing the distant at caution, stopping at Redruth and then forgetting about it until emerging from the tunnel.  Maybe even more so in the last few years when Drump Lane it was rarely switched in.  I wonder if this contributed to the decision to close it when it was in a better location for a block post than Roskear Junction although as discussed elsewhere the most likely reason would have been the cost of CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) control of Roskear and Camborne level crossings.

[Cornish bobby]

It appears that most of the new signals are in position now (thought the new ones west of Truro have yet to be commissioned). I have noticed however that some of the new home signals seem quite poorly sited particularly on the down line. Home signals at Menheniot, Redruth and Hayle all appear to be sited a short distance before the stations themselves. Surely it makes more sense to position the home signals just after the stations (like what's been done at Bodmin Parkway)? This rules out the need for a train for having to stop twice, waiting at a signal can be done whilst passengers are getting on and off at a station. It can also be quite frustrating for a passenger waiting to get off to be held at a signal just short of your destination.

KM

Signals are normally provided to allow a specified minimum headway time between trains.  There are lots of other considerations, such as sighting distance and SPAD^▸ (Signal Passed At Danger) risk mitigation.  Having a signal at the end of a station platform is potentially a SPAD risk as station duties can be a distraction, causing the driver to forget the previous warning signal.  In the case of Bodmin Parkway the starting signals have been placed a trains length ahead of the platforms and can be clearly seen by a train stopped at the station, but even then the Down signal has been provided with a banner repeater signal (probably to comply with signal minimum reading time).  However, this is not always possible due to line curvature.

So in summary, its a mix and match of issues that need to be considered at a particular site.

The new signals between Truro and St.Erth are due to be commissioned next month I believe.

Commissioning is scheduled for October this year.