Simplifying the system??

[whole diary]

[grahame]

From Money Saving Expert

Train travellers should be able to more easily pick the cheapest fares for their journey under proposals for a shake-up of ticket prices, it has emerged.

Over the next few weeks, rail bosses are to meet with Government officials in a bid to make lower prices more transparent to passengers.

The plan is to introduce a new way to book tickets similar to that of so-called 'airline' booking which lets you choose the precise time and date of travel to make maximum use of discounted and off-peak fares.

Jacqueline Starr, managing director of customer experience at the Rail Delivery Group - a body acting on behalf of train operators - said talks had already begun with the Department of Transport to try and pave the way for changes.

She said: 'The rail industry can do more to make buying a ticket less complex and confusing for passengers. We want to help people get the best possible information and to be confident that they are buying the right tickets for their journeys.'

article continues

[TaplowGreen]

From Money Saving Expert

Train travellers should be able to more easily pick the cheapest fares for their journey under proposals for a shake-up of ticket prices, it has emerged.

Over the next few weeks, rail bosses are to meet with Government officials in a bid to make lower prices more transparent to passengers.

The plan is to introduce a new way to book tickets similar to that of so-called 'airline' booking which lets you choose the precise time and date of travel to make maximum use of discounted and off-peak fares.

Jacqueline Starr, managing director of customer experience at the Rail Delivery Group - a body acting on behalf of train operators - said talks had already begun with the Department of Transport to try and pave the way for changes.

She said: 'The rail industry can do more to make buying a ticket less complex and confusing for passengers. We want to help people get the best possible information and to be confident that they are buying the right tickets for their journeys.'

article continues

I wonder if this will include offering split ticketing where advantageous to the customer or whether this may be a precursor to ending the practice?

[didcotdean]

If the 'simplification' of gas and electricity prices is anything to go on, 'less complex and confusing' will mean less choice, and raising of the cheapest fares.

[stuving]

If the 'simplification' of gas and electricity prices is anything to go on, 'less complex and confusing' will mean less choice, and raising of the cheapest fares.

I can't see anything there about changing prices. They are just talking about a small change in booking engines (e.g offering other times and dates that would be cheaper). But does that really need DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) involvement?

[Richard Fairhurst]

It doesn't, and there is an absolute killing to be made by the first person to code a smart booking engine that knows some of the tricks (e.g. split ticketing) and shows different options through clever presentation (e.g. "this direct route is £80, but if you go this way it'll take an hour longer but only cost £20"). But no-one has yet done it.

[Oxonhutch]

I don't think we will see that soon.  It is adding an extra dimension (price) to a classic 'Travelling Salesman Problem', an algorithm for which has not yet been found in the Mathematical World. Go for the Fields Medal* and help us get cheaper fares!

*There is no Nobel Prize in mathematics - but that is a different story ...

[Bmblbzzz]

It's not really simplifying the system though. It's suggesting the elimination (or restriction) of tickets which are not booked-train. That means less flexibility and requires more forward planning. It's great for people who are able and enjoy forward planning. Just the sort of person who already benefits from the current system! In fact, the type of person Western, especially Anglophone, society is designed for; read The Time Paradox by Zimbardo and Boyd for more on this.

It also amplifies the occasional problems when things go wrong with present booked-train-only tickets (like what if your train is so late that the next train arrives before it? etc).

[LiskeardRich]

It doesn't, and there is an absolute killing to be made by the first person to code a smart booking engine that knows some of the tricks (e.g. split ticketing) and shows different options through clever presentation (e.g. "this direct route is £80, but if you go this way it'll take an hour longer but only cost £20"). But no-one has yet done it.

This one comes pretty close, it's suggested changing onto a local stopper from a voyager at Taunton to allow splits at Filton Abbey Wood as one example on a Cornwall-south Wales

https://raileasy.trainsplit.com/main.aspx

[TaplowGreen]

Travelling from Tower Hill back to Paddington yesterday I was struck by the ease of ticketing - there were huge queues at all the ticket machines but as I have a contactless debit card I was able to tap in/out at Tower Hill/Paddington just as if I had an Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) card - once back at Paddington (it was off peak) I was confronted with huge queues at ticket offices and TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) to buy my ticket to Taplow.

I wonder how long it will be before the railways catch up with existing technology and allow people to pay fares via Oyster/Contactless cards? Surely the cost of installation at all stations wouldn't be very high, and it'd provide considerable savings pretty quickly..

..........or am I missing something? 

[ellendune]

There are two issues here that I can see:

1) the issue here is the hugely complex fares system;
2) the price of most tickets being above the £30 contactless limit

[Bmblbzzz]

TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) accepting contactless cards is a logical step though, esp on board trains.

[LiskeardRich]

TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) accepting contactless cards is a logical step though, esp on board trains.

They are starting rolling out contactless on board.

[stuving]

2) the price of most tickets being above the £30 contactless limit

Really? ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road, formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about)'s average figures for 2015-6 are a journey length of 38 km at 14p/km (revenue) - which is just £5.46 per journey. The median is presumably lower. I would expect the figures for single-trip (i.e. not season) tickets to be similar, without knowing whether seasons tend to be for longer or shorter journeys.
 
So machines which sell tickets for short journeys, much quicker than now, and use contactless payments, would cope with most sales.

[ellendune]

2) the price of most tickets being above the £30 contactless limit

Really? ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road, formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about)'s average figures for 2015-6 are a journey length of 38 km at 14p/km (revenue) - which is just £5.46 per journey. The median is presumably lower. I would expect the figures for single-trip (i.e. not season) tickets to be similar, without knowing whether seasons tend to be for longer or shorter journeys.
 
So machines which sell tickets for short journeys, much quicker than now, and use contactless payments, would cope with most sales.

That makes me feel even worse about the very poor deal we get here.  Here are the off-peak fares from Swindon to our nearest stations in each direction:

Kemble £6.40
Chippenham £6.80
Didcot £10.00

In other words how far can you get from Swindon for the £5.46 average fare?  Precisely nowhere

How can the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) justify 14p per mile average fares when ours are so high (81p peak to London 34p Super off peak)

[trainer]

How can the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) justify 14p per mile average fares when ours are so high (81p peak to London 34p Super off peak)

Without wishing to detract from the very important point made by quoting the fares, it should be noted that DfT do not justify 14p/mile, but rather 14p/kilometer (according to stuving, whom I have no reason to doubt). Over the distances mentioned the difference adds up, but I'm afraid I cannot spend time working out by what amount.  10miles is approx 16kms. I'm sure someone else will be able to give the detail.