Minehead Rail Link Group

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thank you, Sir Humphrey Appleby. 

[TonyK]

Thank you, Sir Humphrey Appleby. 

Ret'd, my dear fellow!

[grahame]

Minehead Rail Link Group meeting

Early diary notice ... "The meeting is at 7pm on 30th October 2018 at the Old Hospital." - I expect full details at http://www.mineheadraillinkgroup.org.uk and / or on social media in the next week or so.

[broadgage]

Sounds a good idea.
Looks as though through trains from Minehead to the national network are back on the agenda. High time too !

[SandTEngineer]

I've always said the first target should be to extend the existing services to an Upside bay platform at Taunton.  The old Up Relief line formation is still free of obstruction, except for a signalling cable route and a few equipment cases that would need moving.

[JayMac]

The up bay at the country end of Taunton station can't accommodate a steam/diesel loco and any more than two carriages if there is to be a run round loop. Otherwise it's WSR's heritage DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) only. Is that an attractive enough proposal to extend the WSR into Taunton?

I think WSR would do better to explore developing a station and transport hub at Norton Fitzwarren, utilising the land they have there around the rail triangle. With an extension of Great Western Way to this new station site.

[Andy]

"West Somerset's under utilized railway line could provide a new route for all it's residents to reconnect with the modern economy."

Apostrophe abuse notwithstanding, I'm glad to read that this aspiration hasn't been abandoned. There are various options to explore:

A summer weekend service à la Okehampton.
A summer through trains service à la Newquay.
A limited Minehead-Taunton commuters/shoppers/day-trippers service in addition to heritage operations
A Bishop's Lydeard-Taunton shuttle connecting with WSR services.

[broadgage]

The up bay at the country end of Taunton station can't accommodate a steam/diesel loco and any more than two carriages if there is to be a run round loop. Otherwise it's WSR's heritage DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) only. Is that an attractive enough proposal to extend the WSR into Taunton?

I think WSR would do better to explore developing a station and transport hub at Norton Fitzwarren, utilising the land they have there around the rail triangle. With an extension of Great Western Way to this new station site.

Not certain that I agree with the Norton Fitzwarren idea. This would still entail a change from rail onto a bus, or more likely into private cars. What should IMO^▸ (in my opinion) be encouraged is use of rail throughout by provision of through trains to Taunton and further afield.
I also suspect that considerable local opposition would exist to this. When the WSR purchased and developed the Norton fitzwarren site there was a certain amount of opposition to "building an industrial site on greenfield land" and also concerns were voiced about the amount of extra traffic feared to result.
These concerns were addressed by reassurances that the Norton site was to be primarily accessed by RAIL with very limited parking and therefore little extra road traffic. "public train services will continue to operate between Minehead and Bishops Lydeard, with the Norton site being primarily for through trains to network rail, for stabling trains, and for turning via the triangle"
Turning the Norton site into a "transport hub" AKA^▸ (also known as) a car park and bus stop, and road expansion to serve this car park transport hub would be strongly opposed.

It will be bad enough with "fire breathing, spark snorting iron monsters roaming the countryside at will ! crops will be destroyed by fire, horses be frightened before becoming extinct, the hovels of the poor be tumbled down, hens will stop laying, cows dry up, and the district be covered in smoke, dirt and misery"

[grahame]

This should be an interesting evening.   There is clearly not (yet?) any unanimousity between all the various ideas - and as such the "leave is as it is" elements are well placed to get support from all sorts of governmental quarters, and all the more so because "as it is" requires no public funding.    Sadly, "as it is" only does a proportion of what it might do for the town of Minehead, its residents and visitors, compared to what a corridor able to support a wonderful heritage line and a realistic service for the wider use of the area could do.  That latter would most likely need 'near provision' financial support, but the benefits brought to the wider economy of West Somerset should well outstrip that near provision.  That is a set of general thoughts which are not getting into practicality / impracticality arguments.


I have seen many suggestions that all-rail services to Minehead might be provided by extending the Cardiff - Taunton service on to Norton Fitzwarren, to Bishops Lydeard, or all the way to Minhead.  With changes at Norton Fitzwarren or Bishops Lydeard in the first two cases.   I find myself suspecting that's due to the convenient service from Cardiff terminating at Taunton from the east and so it become natural for it to go through to the west ... but would Minehead passengers really come from Bridgwater, Weston, and intermediate stations?  Perhaps the train would be an everyone off - everyone on at Taunton, and what a pity if they have another change at Norton Fitzwarren!

Logic follows that serious thought be given (but the option may later be ruled out) to running from the bay to the north west of the station.  I'm aware of the paradox of me putting forward that option when I'm so keen to link Swindon - Westbury to Westbury - Warminster and beyond, but as a wild guess traffic to Minehead would originate from Taunton itself, from London line services, and from Cross Country services - Bristol and beyond - way in excess of through journeys on the Cardiff stopper.

[broadgage]

IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), an ideal service would be a regular service between Minehead and Taunton, with some services to/from more distant places
Something like
07-00 Minehead to London
08-30 Minehead to Bristol
10-00 Minehead to Cardiff
11-30 Minehead to Taunton
13-00 Minehead to London
14-30 Minehead to Bristol
16-00 Minehead to Taunton
17-30 Minehead to Cardiff
19-00  Minehead to Taunton

With a similar service in the other direction.
Trains running beyond Taunton would have to be something modern but not too expensive. Voyagers or HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) seem possibilities. IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) seem unlikely due to clearance issues and the great costs.
Hopefully TPTB^▸ (The Powers That Be) will allow heritage traction for the Taunton trains, this needs to be something cheap and easy to run but reliable and operable from either end without running a loco around. A heritage DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) or a few coaches with a small loco (class 20 ?) at each end might be reasonable.

[JayMac]

The up bay at the country end of Taunton station can't accommodate a steam/diesel loco and any more than two carriages if there is to be a run round loop. Otherwise it's WSR's heritage DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) only. Is that an attractive enough proposal to extend the WSR into Taunton?

I think WSR would do better to explore developing a station and transport hub at Norton Fitzwarren, utilising the land they have there around the rail triangle. With an extension of Great Western Way to this new station site.

Not certain that I agree with the Norton Fitzwarren idea. This would still entail a change from rail onto a bus, or more likely into private cars.

My idea for a transport hub would include reinstating a Norton Fitzwarren national rail station. Not only do you have connections to the WSR, but you provide a station to a growing area of west Taunton. Interchange there for WSR rather than Taunton where capacity would be constrained.

Dismissing out of hand vehicular access to such a site fails to understand the realities of transport use.

None of that precludes direct specials and/or high season through trains.

[broadgage]

Car parking provision is indeed needed at railway stations in general.
However consider Norton Fitzwaren in particular I would be opposed to car parking. Providing same would be seen as a significant betrayal by the local community who were reassured that the Norton site would not add to parking or traffic.

Many locals feared that the Norton site would be the "thin end of the wedge" and a precursor to "out of town shopping, new housing estates, and car parks"

Those who wish to drive to the station could reasonably use Taunton.

[Witham Bobby]

In 1976, I left BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) and became involved on a professional basis in the re-opening of the WSR in stages from Minehead.  Firstly to Blue Anchor, then Williton, in 1976.  Then to Stogumber in 1978.  And Bishops Lydeard in 1979.  The intention was at that time to run an all-year public transport service, using a Running Powers Agreement over the former Up Relief line into the Up Bay Platform at Taunton.  It was intended that this service would be provided with DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit).  There was provision for loco-hauled stock to travel from the branch into Taunton, and a run-round loop would have been provided between what had been Taunton West Junction and Taunton West Station.  All stock running over the BR part of the line would have had to have been maintained, inspected and approved by BR, as would all staff.  Which is why we operated to the BR Rule Book in those days, and crews were passed-out by BR Traction Inspectors.

The Light Railway Order gave permission for a line speed of 40 mph for DMU trains, subject to the same inspection and maintenance provisions as for running on BR.  As we automated the level crossings, they were laid out with the higher line speed in mind (although the crossings themselves had various lower speed restrictions over them)

The (what we then called) "tourist" steam trains were envisaged to run only over part of the line - probably Norton Fitzwarren to Bishops Lydeard only - and would provide sufficient revenue (the directors reckoned) to subsidise the all-year DMU service.

It's well known that the intervention of the NUR on behalf of their bus driver members, and a craven attitude towards this by BR, were causes for the Taunton service not to materialise back then.  Active discouragement towards the new enterprise came from BR(WR) Bristol divisional management, who did not, in my opinion, wish to see a line they had closed on loss-making grounds turn into a financial success.  The costs required for the Running Powers Agreement were escalated in Saturn V rocket style at each meeting.  Eventually, the WSR had to throw-in the towel.  There was no negotiation with these people.

Whether the provisions of the original LRO still have full effect, or not, I can see that it would be problematic for today's WSR to operate public trainsport sevices interspersed with 25 mph steam trains.  The single line sections operate at full capacity already during daytimes in the summer months.  So investment in infrastructure (particularly for crossing loops where they used to exist at Leigh Wood and at Kentsford, and possible re-doubling between Dunster and Minehead) to improve capacity would be a minimum requirement.  And then the line would have to be staffed.  If the present heritage style signalling were retained, this would mean an absolute minimum of four signalboxes, open two shifts.  And crews for these public transport service trains would have to be found.

All these things are possible.  My question is: "where's the money coming from".  I don't imagine the present day WSR plc has any ability, let alone desire, to fund this idea.

[broadgage]

Thanks for the interesting first hand insight.
Re-doubling between Minehead and Dunster looks, IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) more achievable than some of the other upgrades.

It seems to me some that at least of the trains between Minehead and Taunton should be operated by heritage stock, in order that the same train can serve both the heritage market AND those seeking a public transport link.
A preserved DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) would serve in the off season, with steam warranted in the summer season.

HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) should also be considered as they ARE borderline heritage.

[grahame]

In 1976, I left BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) and became involved on a professional basis in the re-opening of the WSR in stages from Minehead.  ...


... All these things are possible.  My question is: "where's the money coming from".  I don't imagine the present day WSR plc has any ability, let alone desire, to fund this idea.

That is a fantastically useful summary and look to where we stand.  Thank you.