Referendum - result of vote, and implications for transport in the UK

[whole diary]

[LiskeardRich]

Odd that. Cornwall gets £millions of EU^» (European Union - about) money, and they go vote out...

My wife and I both voted in!

I noticed on Friday I have still never voted for a winning side!  I'm going to start voting the other side to what I want.

I started counting EU funding boards driving around Cornwall this weekend, I spent most of Saturday In Devon and Somerset, but since Friday I have counted no fewer than 8 EU funding boards.

I've heard people say that they aren't bothered as they feel they don't benefit from the funded items. the Eden project for example was funded, many people locally say that doesn't benefit them failing to understand tourists come from all over Europe/world for Eden, and they don't just come to Cornwall, go to Eden and go home again. They stay here for a few days- a week, and spend money elsewhere. Holiday parks, dining, shopping, gifts to name a few.

[chrisr_75]

Odd that. Cornwall gets £millions of EU^» (European Union - about) money, and they go vote out...

I started counting EU funding boards driving around Cornwall this weekend, I spent most of Saturday In Devon and Somerset, but since Friday I have counted no fewer than 8 EU funding boards.

We noticed a few around the vale of Glamorgan/Bridgend/Cardiff areas over the weekend too. For some bizarre reason most of the most heavily EU funded areas in Wales (e.g. The South Wales valleys) voted 'out'. Indeed, I was able to complete my masters degree with help from objective 5b (iirc) funding to cover my course fees and some subsistence allowance. At the end of the day, I don't think this was about common-sense and practicalities...

[LiskeardRich]

I'd been studying Facebook friend's status' on the referendum, and concluded those friends I know who had high level education or ran successful businesses the majority were in favour of remaining, whereas those friends who were less academic seemed to be in favour of an exit.

Well I've found the daily telegraph have a more scientific poll than my study of friends, but with a similar outcome.

The daily telegraph poll found those educated to degree level or higher 70:30 in favour of remain.
The same poll found those with a maximum of GCSE level qualifications were 65:35 in favour of exit.

Source:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/eu-referendum-which-type-of-person-wants-to-leave-and-who-will-b/

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

Well for what it’s worth I’m a Chartered Engineer educated to degree level and I voted Leave.

The idea that one’s voting power should be linked to their academic status is a bit creepy.  In a democracy, for better or for worse, everyone gets an equal vote.  People who prefer to be governed by a “ruling elite” who know what’s best for them should perhaps move to North Korea or China.

It's depressing how hard the Remainers (supported by the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)) find it to accept a democratic vote.

[chrisr_75]

Well for what it’s worth I’m a Chartered Engineer educated to degree level and I voted Leave.

The idea that one’s voting power should be linked to their academic status is a bit creepy.  .

But is clearly is statistically linked to your academic achievements, along with various other attributes.

In a democracy, for better or for worse, everyone gets an equal vote.  People who prefer to be governed by a “ruling elite” who know what’s best for them should perhaps move to North Korea or China

Are you seriously suggesting that Johnson, Farage, Gove et al have no designs on becoming a 'ruling elite'?! Farage isn't even an MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post - a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London, depending on context)...Johnson is looking likely to be the second PM in the last 10 years who has been imposed on us by the members of a political party rather than the general electorate.

It's depressing how hard the Remainers (supported by the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)) find it to accept a democratic vote.

It's a little bit more complex than simply not accepting this - the leave campaign was fought using popularist, xenophobic and veiled racist tactics (I'm not suggesting these influenced your decision) and they have already redacted key pledges, for example the £350m going to the NHS. Indeed, Boris Johnson has been quoted as being pro-Remain by a fellow Conservative MP, the Leave people have also admitted to having no plan. It's a truly bizarre situation and as such a technical, detailed issue affecting almost every aspect of UK^▸ (United Kingdom) life in some way or another, that imho, this should never have got to a referendum and should've been our elected legislators who made this decision on our behalf, it is, after all, why we elect and pay them.

[TaplowGreen]

The smug, self righteous mainly middle class sneering at and stereotyping of those who voted "Leave" on the perceived view that they were all thick, ill informed, racist etc has been quite appalling but perhaps in keeping with the nature of the campaign and the level of the debate.

Democracy means that everyone's vote is equal.

[ChrisB]

Mark my words, I can't see Farage getting a look in on the negotiations. They have one MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post - a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London, depending on context) - who *might* get consulted, but not Farage.

I'm expecting the new Tory leader will go for an election - they'll have to. I didn't hear many complaints when Brown succeeded Blair though.

The smug, self righteous mainly middle class sneering at and stereotyping of those who voted "Leave" on the perceived view that they were all thick, ill informed, racist etc has been quite appalling but perhaps in keeping with the nature of the campaign and the level of the debate.

Democracy means that everyone's vote is equal.

Totally agree, TG.

[didcotdean]

We noticed a few around the vale of Glamorgan/Bridgend/Cardiff areas over the weekend too. For some bizarre reason most of the most heavily EU^» (European Union - about) funded areas in Wales (e.g. The South Wales valleys) voted 'out'. Indeed, I was able to complete my masters degree with help from objective 5b (iirc) funding to cover my course fees and some subsistence allowance. At the end of the day, I don't think this was about common-sense and practicalities...

There were some interviews in South Wales on the TV^▸ (Thames Valley) where the assumption seemed to be because it was 'our' money then they would automatically continue to receive it. This strikes me as being optimistic. As the Leave people are now making clear, all the pledges and promises made during their campaign were only 'suggestions' of 'possibilities' of what could happen and if you added them all up the money was spent a multiple of times. They will be in the same position as everyone else trying to get money out of The Treasury, and in the event of the overall cake being smaller equally vulnerable to being cut.


These regional assistance programmes were only invented to recycle money back to the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) in the first place.

According to a poll (take your own level of caution on that) 80% of Leave voters considered £350M extra per week to the NHS was the most important factor in their voting decision.

[chrisr_75]

Democracy means that everyone's vote is equal.

True, but it is nonetheless interesting to analyse the data and look for patterns (which, it has to be said, has mainly been done in an objective, non-judgemental manner where I have encountered such analyses at source). It cannot be argued that certain demographics had certain overall preferences.

The whole thing was flawed on so many levels, particularly the 'populist' campaigning tactics, it probably should never have happened, with the decision being left to parliament.

[chrisr_75]

I didn't hear many complaints when Brown succeeded Blair though.

I for one was pretty appalled when this happened and he didn't have the balls to put himself to the electorate, hence why I mentioned it!

Sadly, a general election really needs a strong, organised opposition, particularly in the divided situation we find ourselves in (a 52/48 majority is hardly convincing, whichever side you fall into). The primary opposition party is currently beginning to implode...

[TaplowGreen]

Democracy means that everyone's vote is equal.

True, but it is nonetheless interesting to analyse the data and look for patterns (which, it has to be said, has mainly been done in an objective, non-judgemental manner where I have encountered such analyses at source). It cannot be argued that certain demographics had certain overall preferences.

The whole thing was flawed on so many levels, particularly the 'populist' campaigning tactics, it probably should never have happened, with the decision being left to parliament.

Analysis is interesting but weaponising it/drawing conclusions in the way that has occurred is absolutely wrong - take a look at any social media platform and you will see what I mean.

[ChrisB]

The whole thing was flawed on so many levels, particularly the 'populist' campaigning tactics, it probably should never have happened, with the decision being left to parliament.

oh completely flawed - public weren't demanding this, simply Cameron trying to deal internally with UKIP that made him make unconditional offer to his MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post - a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London, depending on context).

And that, dear friends, is *really* what we ought to be angry about.

[ChrisB]

Sadly, a general election really needs a strong, organised opposition, particularly in the divided situation we find ourselves in (a 52/48 majority is hardly convincing, whichever side you fall into). The primary opposition party is currently beginning to implode...

Convincing enough. If we ignore this one, there won't be any point in any more, if we can just choose to ignore afterwards. I hope we all hold out for a change in UK^▸ (United Kingdom) politics & reject any more of the same.

[TaplowGreen]

The whole thing was flawed on so many levels, particularly the 'populist' campaigning tactics, it probably should never have happened, with the decision being left to parliament.

oh completely flawed - public weren't demanding this, simply Cameron trying to deal internally with UKIP that made him make unconditional offer to his MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post - a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London, depending on context).

And that, dear friends, is *really* what we ought to be angry about.

......well they were elected on a manifesto committing them to an In/Out referendum on the EU^» (European Union - about).

[chrisr_75]

Democracy means that everyone's vote is equal.

True, but it is nonetheless interesting to analyse the data and look for patterns (which, it has to be said, has mainly been done in an objective, non-judgemental manner where I have encountered such analyses at source). It cannot be argued that certain demographics had certain overall preferences.

The whole thing was flawed on so many levels, particularly the 'populist' campaigning tactics, it probably should never have happened, with the decision being left to parliament.

Analysis is interesting but weaponising it/drawing conclusions in the way that has occurred is absolutely wrong - take a look at any social media platform and you will see what I mean.

Yes, you need to have the intellect to be able to analyse and present the data in an objective manner and not resort to petty name calling, certainly not in a public forum. Some of the analysis is very interesting and confirms some preconceptions I had. Other patterns I was quite surprised by.

On the flip side, have you seen some of the out and out pure racism/xenophobia being dished out by people purporting to be 'leave' supporters over the past few days? Some of what I have read frankly makes me ashamed to be British and is utterly appalling and ignorant, although this just follows on from the sub-gutter level campaigning that has gone on. I think this referendum has done more to divide our country than any other event that I can recall.